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Palestinian bloggers protest Daily Kos | 104 comments (104 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
No I didn't either. My point all along was that the seal issue is a green versus green one, both of which I support, and that it would be in the best interest of both causes to resolve any conflicts.

Sorry that you took it as defensively as you did. But it doesn't help the wind turbine industry to find out that it may be endangering wildlife if that is the case. Shark attacks was the latest theory about the seal deaths I am aware of.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 10:03:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
How nice to notice that your memory for past discussions has returned.

That must surely be because this seal subject is an off-topic diversion, unlike Helen's on-topic opening comment on this thread, in response to which you had a monstrous memory fail and demanded links.

Oh, but I'm forgetting: you decide what to post, how and when; you decide what is on or off-topic; and you remember what you want to remember and forget what you want to forget.

And of course the main thing: you're not really interested in dialogue with anyone here, you just use the place as a bulletin board.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 10:26:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
When the dialog becomes substantive and on target, it is always responded in a similar vein. Helen was pure meta and as far as I can tell, so were all the other comments. If you can show me even one content oriented remark, I'd be happy to look it over.

But I've been here before, so save your time.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 01:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Helen:
it should be bleeding obvious why this situation exists on dKos ... It's not Kos, it's you.

But since you've been here before, why not save your time and ours and leave?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 02:51:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
No one has ever asked that anyone comment on these diaries. If the point of these meta spirals and ad hominem attacks is to get people to stop posting on ET, than you and the other clique members should say so and use your banning privilege.

This is the smallest blog I would bother coming to and it would not be a loss to me. The loss would be yours.


by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 02:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
If it's no loss to you, just go.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 03:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
And PS: When you deprive someone of posting privileges, such as Fairleft, you have essentially banned them. Stop kidding yourself, This is no leftwing or left of center blog. Try reading your sister site, Booman, sometime to learn what those terms really mean.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 03:36:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 2)
Very few people have been banned here over five years, but it has happened. Jerome is telling you that in his comment above, whereupon you intelligently ask him about seal deaths.

Never mind. You have all those much bigger, much leftier blogs that welcome your contributions, so you won't miss a little place like this, will you?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 03:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Okay, where's your site meter? It would help to guage the trouble it takes to spend time here.

And how about letting the lurkers have a say in this matter. They are the largest group by far who tune in here. Don't pretend to speak for them.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:43:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 2)
shergald:
Don't pretend to speak for them.

You, of course, are entitled to do that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
shergald:
This is no leftwing or left of center blog.

Oh. My God! Here I was thinking ET was a progressive blog!

Please, tell us what we should do to deserve the coveted Sherleft & Fairgald True Left-Wing Blog label (apart from an automatic reclist for your diaries).

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:41:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
"Sherleft & Fairgald True Left-Wing Blog?" I like it, I like it. Could you by any chance draw my attention to the latest Darfur diary to appear on ET? After which I will give you a rating on the leftward spectrum. This will permit many people to understand themselves and what they really are.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
shergald:
This will permit many people to understand themselves and what they really are.

Who appointed you to be Saint Shergald, Missionary to the Heathen?

Stop preaching.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Shergald has been appointed blogger in partibus infidelium by the Holy Church of the True Left...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 05:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Okay let's get a hold of ourselves, me too. Let me first apologize to the train affectionados, and confess, I like the pictures. But as a bus person, let me say that there is a definite anti-bus bias on this site. Have you noticed too? So let me challenge the train enthusiasts to come up with a bus diary, that shows the great advances in bus technology. I am speaking here of course about the seats. Last time I too a ride, it ended up with a good case of hemorroids. But improvements are being made, aren't they? You know, now I have even forgotten the topic of this diary, so we are back to Helen. Please no!

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 05:21:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
I translated your subquote:

"What comes into the world to disturb nothing deserves neither respect nor patience." René Char

So you got it all along. I'm here to disturb something and I deserve respect and patience. So let's have it.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 05:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 5)
First, don't mistake bothering for disturbing.

And you're making a logical error: René Char says that what disturbs nothing deserves neither respect nor patience. That doesn't mean everything that disturbs deserves respect and patience...

By the way, I think I (we) have shown respect and a lot of patience towards you, even while you might not have deserved it...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 05:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Thanks for your patience. It would have been entirely unnecessary if you just didn't choose to partake in the useless meta dialog that has again attended on of my diaries.

In another context, say Daily Kos, such attention would be considered just another diary hijacking with the usual ad hominem. Even Migeru might have maintained his recommendation, and the other recommenders would not have had their ticks deleted by administration. Maybe it is just a case of getting bored and needing a little bit more excitement on ET.

Glad to give it, but again, I would just stay away. The messages I send are usually in the title, and its reading is enough.

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:17:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
shergald:
the other recommenders would not have had their ticks deleted by administration

That is technically impossible - but your assertion is above all a smear on the editorial team here.

Time for you to go, shergald.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Even Migeru might have maintained his recommendation, and the other recommenders would not have had their ticks deleted by administration.

And again you beclown yourself (what a great expression - that may well be among your five most useful contributions to this site).

Site management cannot wipe individual ratings and recommendations. The software does not work that way. When you wipe out ratings, you wipe out the whole rating history of the user in question (or maybe only those who are less than a month old - I don't know the precise details).

The messages I send are usually in the title, and its reading is enough.

Thank you for this explicit admission that you are in persistent violation of European Tribune etiquette.

You're advertising, not contributing.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:25:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Demand respect? Oh do Fuck off.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 09:26:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 3)
shergald:
No one has ever asked that anyone comment on these diaries.

I am glad to read that, given the fact that you keep whining about too little interest raised by your diaries and complaining they are not recommended with remarks like "for those who are interested in human rights"...

Many of us are interested in the Israel - Palestine issues and aware of what's happening. I, for one have been closely following these issues for 40 years. But you behave like you were the only person in the world aware of the problem and keep lecturing us with holier-than-thou comments that do not help the cause you pretend to defend. We don't need no preachers here.

As I already told you: were you trying to focus on things we don't already know, like initiatives to find solutions to the conflict, you would certainly have more success. When (too seldom) you do so, your diaries do not raise criticism, although too often you can't refrain from making aggressive comments towards ET and ET users.

This particular diary presents no onterest for us: it is meta about another website. Whatever one can think of DKos policy on Israel - Palestine diaries and comments, I don't see what is the interest of posting a diary about it on ET.

 

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
I haven't seen any of this interest in the IP conflict here among members as you claim. I'm it. If you know the particulars about IP, then you also know that news censorship in the US and here in Europe is a problem, and one major reason why this conflict continues.

I would not have guessed that Europeans are less interested in censorship than Americans.

Now that we are opening our souls, may I say that I have no interest whatsoever in trains. Yet people come here and persistently post diaries about them. Can someone get on this problem?

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
We certainly do not claim to be representative of "Europeans".

These Europeans might be interested in Middle-East issues, but not in the way you present them in your diaries...

I already told you that there is little censorship about Israel and Palestine in the European media and blogosphere. That doesn't mean everything is fair and balanced, though.

If you aren't interested in trains, just don't read the train diaries...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 04:51:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
I'm fairly sure your meta posts are doing the Palestinians no end of good as they're brutalised by the Israelis.

Why have a go at Israeli bulldozers when you can have a go at us here on ET?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 05:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
One does what he can, even if it is only blog publicity. Sorry that I can't do more, but I do what I can. I blog for Palestine. If it were not for the fact that the Israeli government cares that people all over the world are talking about its treatment of the Palestinians, and the disgusting philosophy that supports that treatment, I might withdraw.

But not until it makes no difference whatsoever.

Periodically, Brit, from time to time, people learn about the reality, and join in a protest in London in front of the Isreali Embassy. Perhaps next time we'll see you there.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 05:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Clue => attacking ET is in no way, shape, form or co-topology related to blogging for Palestine.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 10:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
I haven't seen any of this interest in the IP conflict here among members as you claim.

Since you don't seem to actually read any content here apart from your own, that may not be the fault of the other contributors.

What we mostly are not interested in is a blow-by-blow account of the turtle's eye view of the conflict. There are organisations dedicated to recording and documenting the minutia of ongoing conflicts - so-and-so many deaths today, so-and-so many people disappeared this month, etc. And while these functions are valuable and important, European Tribune has neither the technical capability, the staff nor the inclination to join them. We do economics very well, and will contribute more to the human condition by continuing to do economics very well than we could by becoming a mediocre copy of www.iraqbodycount.org.

If you know the particulars about IP, then you also know that news censorship in the US and here in Europe is a problem,

But hardly on ET.

and one major reason why this conflict continues.

You have cause and effect the wrong way around here. The censorship persists because the people who set American (and, to a lesser degree, the people who set European) foreign policy towards the Near East find it useful and profitable for the conflict to persist.

The press, in a modern managed democracy, is the tail of the political process, not the dog.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 07:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
But you see Jake, it is the blow by blow which gives meaning to the whole. It is just that, the blow by blow, which is missing from American eyes, and hence their conscience. Along with the propaganda and lies, it is why they blindly support Israel, believe it is a victim, and disparage 'Arab' peoples as terrorists.

In short, it is just what is at the bottom of our stupidity, the blow by blow details.

by shergald on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 07:56:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 6)
But you see Jake, it is the blow by blow which gives meaning to the whole.

I beg to differ. Immersing yourself in the blow-by-blow view of a conflict prevents you from seeing most of the picture. Why is the US supporting Israel? (Hint: It's not because Israel deserves support, nor is it because Israel is all that good at playing American media for fools.) Why does Europe support Israel, by action and inaction? (Hint: It's not because Israel is all that good at playing European media either.) Why does Egypt help Israel murder Palestinians? (Hint: It's not because of any deep and abiding love for Israel or hatred of the Palestinian people.)

A blow-by-blow account will never enable you to answer those questions intelligently. A blow-by-blow account can manufacture an emotional response, and if it is done with sufficient rigour it can serve as a resource for historical documentation. But while those are important parts of activism, they are not well suited to the platform and audience you have here.

It is just that, the blow by blow, which is missing from American eyes, and hence their conscience.

You persist in treating European Tribune as if it were a broadcast medium, which is why you keep getting egg on your face. ET is a grassroot medium. The rules are different for grassroot media. The target audience is different too, because you're normally dealing with a non-captive high-information audience where broadcast media target a captive low-information audience.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 28th, 2010 at 09:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Jake, those questions have been asked and answered a long time ago, many times, and as such, their repetition would only elicit more Helen-type responses, heard it before. Those answers have not changed in years. It is the day to day events that change in what is a modern day reenactment of 19th century colonialism in the Middle East.

Having said that, this diary is actually about censorship in proportedly left wing media in the US. On the other hand, take a look at this diary posted on Daily Kos for a slimpse at what you claim is of no interest here: Israel/Palestine News (get you the link in a moment).

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 08:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
LINK: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/22/912685/-Israel-Palestine-News


by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 08:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 3)
On Kos it's relevant and interesting, because apparently a significant proportion of their user base remains in denial of the realities on the ground. On European Tribune, it's a jumbled mix of the relevant and the irrelevant.

The change in Israeli law described is interesting, because it contributes new knowledge. The rest is, on ET at least, noise.

Every reader of European Tribune knows that Israel is systematically harassing, murdering and displacing Palestinians inside and outside its borders. Incessantly spamming us with pictures of the graphic nature of this vileness does not serve to shock anybody into awareness. It serves only to denude such pictures of their shock value.

You're preaching to ET as if we were a low-info audience, when in fact we're usually better informed than you about the subject of your diaries. That's both insulting and counterproductive.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 09:42:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
The day to day events do not change. On Monday, 3 people were killed in Iraq. On Sunday, 5 people were killed in Iraq. That difference is not a change. That's noise.

Tracking the raw data is important, but not well suited to European Tribune. Claiming that noise represents signal is nonsense and not well suited to anywhere.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 09:05:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)

The European Tribune is a left-of-centre community that is devoted primarily but not exclusively to discussions of current events, underlying causes and new ideas in economics, politics, science and society. Users are free to write diaries on any subject they want, as long as these are not

*personally offensive,
*defamatory,
*do not blatantly falsify scientific or historical facts or
*advocate theories involving pervasive high-level conspiracies

and to comment on contributions by other users. All views published on this site, without exception, are subject to debate, challenge and criticism by any user (as long as the proprieties of civility and ETiquette are observed). No "authority" - whether secular or religious, contemporary or historical - is considered above critical scrutiny. It is not the task of the editorial team to ensure any "balance" of views.

etc.

Jake, I know you are not pleased with having IP news on ET, your biggest claim being, like Helen's, that we have heard that before or we have already resolved the IP conflict and nothing more need be said. I don't know what motivates you, but the best way to make determinations about relevancy or importance is to allow the community including the lurkers to make that decision. They do so through recommendations and commentary if they so choose to participate (and I am not referring to the spirals of meta comments such as seen in this diary). Your attempt to define what is appropriate for ET defies the stated purpose above, but also carries some implications of censorship. That's not something a left of center blog would want get involved in, me thinks.

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 09:47:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 2)
Jake, I know you are not pleased with having IP news on ET,

I have no problem with I/P. I have a problem with noise.

Your scrapbooks of photos, videos and third-party content lifted off random sites is noise.

your biggest claim being, like Helen's, that we have heard that before

And we have. We are not morons and we have been paying attention. Kindly cease presuming that we are and haven't.

the best way to make determinations about relevancy or importance is to allow the community including the lurkers to make that decision.

And presumably you feel qualified to speak for the lurkers? Because most of the contributors have told you in so many words that you do not speak for them.

Lurkers, of course, have the advantage of not calling you on your bullshit.

They do so through recommendations and commentary if they so choose to participate (and I am not referring to the spirals of meta comments such as seen in this diary).

You're the one who started the meta by whining about a completely on-topic comment that just happened to disagree with your thesis.

Your attempt to define what is appropriate for ET defies the stated purpose above,

ETiquette:

One extra point: on European Tribune, we expect to read thought-through arguments, and expect people to be ready to dig up evidence to support their claims. Doing so won't ensure agreement between opposed sides, but at least people are more likely to take each other seriously. By evidence, we don't mean linkdumps or long quotes from webpages and nothing else -- if you reference something, you are expected to at least point out how you think it is relevant and why you think the source is authoritative. By thought-through argument, we mean no firing from the hip, and at least reading the opponent's argument in full.

but also carries some implications of censorship.

Let's take it once again for the slow learners: Demanding a high signal-to-noise ratio is not censorship. On the contrary, insisting upon the right to pollute the airwaves with noise is a quite effective form of censorship, as seen in the media picture of the United States of America.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:03:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Most people who believe that the IP conflict is a bunch of noise are usually people who are interested in censoring IP off a site. I have been there before, and your own efforts in this regard have not gone unnoticed, however idealistic they may seem.

Frankly, I too have heard it before, the photologs of autumn leaves, train dairies, and views of unusual European cities or countries, and many other areas that seem to deserve the accusation of being noise, and of course, the we have heard and seen it before. Personally, I like them.

Finally your claim that the IP conflict is just another rehashment of Iraq and Afganistan dead stats just shows how oblivious you are to the IP conflict, and how much it affects both American and European political life, to say nothing of the Middle East's. On the other hand, that Daily Kos has banned another two IP bloggers is a death toll of sorts, certainly censorship of the kind you are now demanding of me.

Suggestion: put up your own IP diaries, the high signal type you abstractly claim is missing from my own.

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:28:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Why is it you don't have your own blog, shergald?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:31:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Shergald now banned for passing the insult threshold. I feel sort of bad doing it, but only because he/she so clearly wants to be banned.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:32:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
Gets my vote.

I'll welcome quality I/P reporting and content, but someone who's clearly using I/P content as an excuse to pick fights isn't doing the Palestinians or ET any favours.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:47:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
The decision to ban has the support of Jerome and the entire editorial team.

Comments now closed in this thread. There's been enough of this sterile wrangling.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:49:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Most people who believe that the IP conflict is a bunch of noise

Well, that should leave me out. I don't believe that the I/P conflict is noise. I believe that your scrapbooks about the I/P conflict are noise.

Finally your claim that the IP conflict is just another rehashment of Iraq and Afganistan dead stats

I don't. I claim that your scrapbooks are just a (poorly documented, poorly edited and poorly presented) rehash of the sort of reporting the those sites do a lot better than you.

It ain't about Palestine, shergald. It's about the fact that you seem pathologically unable to write anything interesting. The fact that you can make an inherently interesting subject like Palestine seem boring is a testament to your truly awesome lack of skill.

how oblivious you are to the IP conflict, and how much it affects both American and European political life,

No, I know perfectly well how and how much it affects European political life. It's a point of contention between Europe and our neighbours around the Mediterranean. But other than that, it does not affect Europe at all.

Suggestion: put up your own IP diaries, the high signal type you abstractly claim is missing from my own.

Suggestion noted.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Yeah, that needs changing.

We need to add a clause about assholes abusing the community for the their own ends. That should catch both spam and the self-righteous.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:12:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Palestinian bloggers protest Daily Kos | 104 comments (104 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)