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Palestinian bloggers protest Daily Kos | 104 comments (104 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Jake, those questions have been asked and answered a long time ago, many times, and as such, their repetition would only elicit more Helen-type responses, heard it before. Those answers have not changed in years. It is the day to day events that change in what is a modern day reenactment of 19th century colonialism in the Middle East.

Having said that, this diary is actually about censorship in proportedly left wing media in the US. On the other hand, take a look at this diary posted on Daily Kos for a slimpse at what you claim is of no interest here: Israel/Palestine News (get you the link in a moment).

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 08:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
LINK: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/10/22/912685/-Israel-Palestine-News


by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 08:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 3)
On Kos it's relevant and interesting, because apparently a significant proportion of their user base remains in denial of the realities on the ground. On European Tribune, it's a jumbled mix of the relevant and the irrelevant.

The change in Israeli law described is interesting, because it contributes new knowledge. The rest is, on ET at least, noise.

Every reader of European Tribune knows that Israel is systematically harassing, murdering and displacing Palestinians inside and outside its borders. Incessantly spamming us with pictures of the graphic nature of this vileness does not serve to shock anybody into awareness. It serves only to denude such pictures of their shock value.

You're preaching to ET as if we were a low-info audience, when in fact we're usually better informed than you about the subject of your diaries. That's both insulting and counterproductive.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 09:42:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
The day to day events do not change. On Monday, 3 people were killed in Iraq. On Sunday, 5 people were killed in Iraq. That difference is not a change. That's noise.

Tracking the raw data is important, but not well suited to European Tribune. Claiming that noise represents signal is nonsense and not well suited to anywhere.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 09:05:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)

The European Tribune is a left-of-centre community that is devoted primarily but not exclusively to discussions of current events, underlying causes and new ideas in economics, politics, science and society. Users are free to write diaries on any subject they want, as long as these are not

*personally offensive,
*defamatory,
*do not blatantly falsify scientific or historical facts or
*advocate theories involving pervasive high-level conspiracies

and to comment on contributions by other users. All views published on this site, without exception, are subject to debate, challenge and criticism by any user (as long as the proprieties of civility and ETiquette are observed). No "authority" - whether secular or religious, contemporary or historical - is considered above critical scrutiny. It is not the task of the editorial team to ensure any "balance" of views.

etc.

Jake, I know you are not pleased with having IP news on ET, your biggest claim being, like Helen's, that we have heard that before or we have already resolved the IP conflict and nothing more need be said. I don't know what motivates you, but the best way to make determinations about relevancy or importance is to allow the community including the lurkers to make that decision. They do so through recommendations and commentary if they so choose to participate (and I am not referring to the spirals of meta comments such as seen in this diary). Your attempt to define what is appropriate for ET defies the stated purpose above, but also carries some implications of censorship. That's not something a left of center blog would want get involved in, me thinks.

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 09:47:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (4.00 / 2)
Jake, I know you are not pleased with having IP news on ET,

I have no problem with I/P. I have a problem with noise.

Your scrapbooks of photos, videos and third-party content lifted off random sites is noise.

your biggest claim being, like Helen's, that we have heard that before

And we have. We are not morons and we have been paying attention. Kindly cease presuming that we are and haven't.

the best way to make determinations about relevancy or importance is to allow the community including the lurkers to make that decision.

And presumably you feel qualified to speak for the lurkers? Because most of the contributors have told you in so many words that you do not speak for them.

Lurkers, of course, have the advantage of not calling you on your bullshit.

They do so through recommendations and commentary if they so choose to participate (and I am not referring to the spirals of meta comments such as seen in this diary).

You're the one who started the meta by whining about a completely on-topic comment that just happened to disagree with your thesis.

Your attempt to define what is appropriate for ET defies the stated purpose above,

ETiquette:

One extra point: on European Tribune, we expect to read thought-through arguments, and expect people to be ready to dig up evidence to support their claims. Doing so won't ensure agreement between opposed sides, but at least people are more likely to take each other seriously. By evidence, we don't mean linkdumps or long quotes from webpages and nothing else -- if you reference something, you are expected to at least point out how you think it is relevant and why you think the source is authoritative. By thought-through argument, we mean no firing from the hip, and at least reading the opponent's argument in full.

but also carries some implications of censorship.

Let's take it once again for the slow learners: Demanding a high signal-to-noise ratio is not censorship. On the contrary, insisting upon the right to pollute the airwaves with noise is a quite effective form of censorship, as seen in the media picture of the United States of America.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:03:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Most people who believe that the IP conflict is a bunch of noise are usually people who are interested in censoring IP off a site. I have been there before, and your own efforts in this regard have not gone unnoticed, however idealistic they may seem.

Frankly, I too have heard it before, the photologs of autumn leaves, train dairies, and views of unusual European cities or countries, and many other areas that seem to deserve the accusation of being noise, and of course, the we have heard and seen it before. Personally, I like them.

Finally your claim that the IP conflict is just another rehashment of Iraq and Afganistan dead stats just shows how oblivious you are to the IP conflict, and how much it affects both American and European political life, to say nothing of the Middle East's. On the other hand, that Daily Kos has banned another two IP bloggers is a death toll of sorts, certainly censorship of the kind you are now demanding of me.

Suggestion: put up your own IP diaries, the high signal type you abstractly claim is missing from my own.

by shergald on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:28:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Why is it you don't have your own blog, shergald?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:31:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Shergald now banned for passing the insult threshold. I feel sort of bad doing it, but only because he/she so clearly wants to be banned.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:32:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 1)
Gets my vote.

I'll welcome quality I/P reporting and content, but someone who's clearly using I/P content as an excuse to pick fights isn't doing the Palestinians or ET any favours.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:47:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
The decision to ban has the support of Jerome and the entire editorial team.

Comments now closed in this thread. There's been enough of this sterile wrangling.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:49:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Most people who believe that the IP conflict is a bunch of noise

Well, that should leave me out. I don't believe that the I/P conflict is noise. I believe that your scrapbooks about the I/P conflict are noise.

Finally your claim that the IP conflict is just another rehashment of Iraq and Afganistan dead stats

I don't. I claim that your scrapbooks are just a (poorly documented, poorly edited and poorly presented) rehash of the sort of reporting the those sites do a lot better than you.

It ain't about Palestine, shergald. It's about the fact that you seem pathologically unable to write anything interesting. The fact that you can make an inherently interesting subject like Palestine seem boring is a testament to your truly awesome lack of skill.

how oblivious you are to the IP conflict, and how much it affects both American and European political life,

No, I know perfectly well how and how much it affects European political life. It's a point of contention between Europe and our neighbours around the Mediterranean. But other than that, it does not affect Europe at all.

Suggestion: put up your own IP diaries, the high signal type you abstractly claim is missing from my own.

Suggestion noted.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: No. Did you? (none / 0)
Yeah, that needs changing.

We need to add a clause about assholes abusing the community for the their own ends. That should catch both spam and the self-righteous.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:12:41 AM EST
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Palestinian bloggers protest Daily Kos | 104 comments (104 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)