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The misfortune is not for the US but for its foreign quislings.

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 12th, 2010 at 04:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would guess you are partially correct. The "quislings" may suffer in the short term, but  US's diplomacy, which is not always on the wrong side, will likely suffer as well.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sun Dec 12th, 2010 at 05:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... the right or wrong side in a particular dispute, it is persistently on the side of the perpetuation of American Empire, which places it on the wrong side of the long term interests of the US Republic.

The rejoinder to that observation is that there are things that are likely worse for the US Republic than the American Empire, and while that is almost certainly true, the fact that its normally better to be hit on the head with a stick than to be shot in the heart with a pistol does not imply that its good to be hit on the head with a stick.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Dec 13th, 2010 at 12:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it is persistently on the side of the perpetuation of American Empire

Well, that's true, but someone has to do it - I suppose. As they say, paraphrasing Lord Palmerston, nations have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies only permanent interests."

On the other hand, there are some virtuous activities carried out by American diplomats that are usually overshadowed or given short shrift, perhaps owing to the time spent on bashing others with that stick.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Dec 13th, 2010 at 10:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in the end, when al the data is out, i suspect it will end worst for the US.
by wu ming on Mon Dec 13th, 2010 at 04:37:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What this thing is exposing is the extent to which the US runs an empire. The American ambassador acts as a Proconsul and everyone who is anybody dispatches with them and casually discloses to them internal affairs of their organizations.

Maybe a good analogy to what we're seeing in Spain is Canada's Governor General. Superficially, people seem to be telling the American ambassadors the kids of things they might tell our figurehead King. And even nominally anti-American politicians (or at least people whose base is suspicious of the US) seem to be doing it once they get into a position of responsibility. Which to mee seems to indicate that dispatching with the American Ambassador is just part of the way the business of government is done, and not much of a personal choice. Of course, the cadres of the right-wing party PP discuss internal party politicking with the Ambassador while in opposition, and the Ambassador seems to support their return to power, so in their case they're more intimately tied to the Empire, ideologically.

So I don't see this as damaging the US much even if there is a backlash against the politicians and public servants exposed by the leaks. As far as the voters go, the more loosely attached left supporters of the PSOE are more likely to desert it in disgust than PP supporters, so electorally this is a net gain for the PP and therefore the US since they are natural allies.

For "the business of government" to cease to include dispatching with the American Ambassador, a large international realignment needs to occur, not unlike the collapse of the Soviet bloc or the Delian League. And that may be in the cards but to predict its timing is impossible.

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 13th, 2010 at 04:55:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And how is this story being handled in the Spanish MSM?  
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 13th, 2010 at 10:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see anyone drawing political conclusions. They're satisfied with the general egg-flinging and breathless debates about "the future of journalism in the Wikileaks age".

But I'm not looking very hard.

On the other hand, El Pais is "Spanish MSM" and they're the ones carrying the stories. All of my quoted bits in this thread are from ElPais.com or ElPais.com/english

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 13th, 2010 at 10:23:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think your understanding of the matters at hand may reflect a certain point of view, and my point of view could be a little different. I am not ready to make the same assumptions/draw the same conclusions that either you, danps or some others have.  A little more research might change my mind (I only know what has been written here and in a few other media sources, and to me that kind of information (particularly the conclusions) are not necessarily supported. I have seen instances where I believe quotes from State Dept cables have been placed out of context, etc. to support a particular statement/interpretation.

I have read some of the wiki released State Dept cables published by El Pais (regarding Jose Couso), and could find nothing alarming or unusual in the content.  Perhaps your views of the same cables are different.

Do you have any El Pais releases that might provide  cables in addition to those below, as I haven't found others in twelve pages of searches?

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Otros/cables/caso/Couso/elpepuesp/20101207elpepunac_25/Tes

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Cable/fiscal/general/considera/caso/llegara/parte/elpepuesp/20 101201elpepunac_9/Tes

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Tue Dec 14th, 2010 at 12:32:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gringo:
I have read some of the wiki released State Dept cables published by El Pais (regarding Jose Couso), and could find nothing alarming or unusual in the content.  Perhaps your views of the same cables are different.
Well, obviously the family is alarmed, and so is (I think) most of public opinion. About "unusual", they themselves say it's one thing to suspect it and another to have confirmation.

Migeru:

The [family's court] filing claims that the published data could "be an indication of the existence of a criminal conspiracy between functionnaries or high-ranking Administration officials on the one hand, and functionaries of a foreign power on the other" the latter being who, always according to the text submitted to the public prosecutor, ordered to the Spanish funcionnaries how to act.
As JakeS has pointed out, if the wikileaks had involved the Russians rather than the Americans, most people named in the cables would be under investigation for spying for a foreign power. But maybe "your understanding of the matters at hand", based on your professional experience, would indicate that even if it had been the Russians it would be nothing out of the ordinary?

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 14th, 2010 at 04:13:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can find all the Couso cables here: http://www.elpais.com/documentossecretos/tema/el_caso_couso/

Individual cables follow - with my translations of the (obviously editorializing) ElPais headlines

A few cables are entirely devoted to the Couso case.

Cable on the Ministry of Justice's alleged effort to archive the case · ELPAÍS.com

SUBJECT: SPAIN/COUSO CASE: JUDGE CHARGES US SERVICEMEN WITH
"CRIMES AGAINST INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY"
Cable which assures that [deputy PM] De la Vega is "very involved" · ELPAÍS.com
SUBJECT: SPAIN/COUSO CASE: UPDATE; CONVERSATIONS WITH KEY
SPANISH LEADERS
The embassy communicates to Washington that "it appears the [US servicemen] arrest orders are imminent" · ELPAÍS.com
SUBJECT: COUSO CASE: JUDGE REINSTATES CHARGES AGAINST U.S.
SOLDIERS

Cable by the Ambassador to Condoleezza Rice on the Spanish Government's involvement · ELPAÍS.com

On our side, you should note
continued USG concern about the court case against the three
US servicemen charged with alleged &war crimes8 in the case
of the death of Spanish TV camerman Jose Couse in the
Palestine Hotel in Baghdad in 2003. The GOS has been helpful
behind the scenes in getting the case appealed by the Spanish
Prosecutor.
The case now moves to the appeals tribunal of
the National Court, which will rule on the substance of the
charges. We want continued vigilance and cooperation by the
GOS until the case is dropped.
(My emphasis: while in public supporting Couso's family and claiming to them in private that they are resisting US pressures)

The US announces that it will take measures if its servicemembers are indicted over the Couso case · ELPAÍS.com

Charge took the opportunity to convey our concerns
(using talking points in reftel) about the dormant, but
possibly still pending, Spanish court case on the Couso
incident, noting our desire to avoid a situation in which US
soldiers could be indicted by a foreign court. In the event
of any indictments, Charge urged the MFA to issue a strong
"friend of the court" type of brief clearly expressing
opposition to such a development. Leon was unaware of the
pending court case, and undertook to look into the matter. He
emphasized, however, the completely independent nature of the
Spanish judiciary and the lack of ability of the government
to influence decisions on court cases. Charge noted that if
such indictments occurred, USG would go back to MFA to again
raise the matter and urge a strong statement of opposition
from the GOS.

Cable on the work of Spanish ministers "to defy the arrest warrants" · ELPAÍS.com

SUBJECT: SPANISH MINISTERS WORKING TO CHALLENGE ARREST
WARRANTS
Here I am unsure whether "challenge" has been mistranslated (in a judicial context) as "defy" intentionally or unintentionally.

Deputy PM [De la Vega] is grateful for the US Government's response to a request for judicial cooperation · ELPAÍS.com

She
expressed the Spanish government's appreciation for the USG
response to the Spanish request for judicial cooperation in
the Jose Couso case. De la Vega said Attorney General Conde
Pumpido had briefed her on the excellent cooperation he had
enjoyed from the Embassy and U.S. authorities in helping
bring this case to a conclusion.
Cable in which the Embassy seeks contact with the National Court's chief prosecutor · ELPAÍS.com
SUBJECT: SPAIN/COUSO CASE: JUDGE ISSUES DETENTION ORDER
AGAINST THREE U.S. SERVICEMEN
Cable in which it is assured that the prosecutor understands the political implications of the 'Couso case' · ELPAÍS.com
SUBJECT: SPAIN/COUSO CASE: MEETING WITH CHIEF PROSECUTOR
 


Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 14th, 2010 at 04:56:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for providing the rest of the locators and for your comments.  I'll provide my comments once I've had time to read and digest.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Dec 15th, 2010 at 12:01:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru,

Thank you for providing the additional cable locator information and for your comments.

I've finally managed to read through each of the cables while trying to understand how their release could cause so much concern.  My comments relate to the nature of such documentation, the actual content of the cables and the meaning I give to certain sections particularly with regard to the reporting (in the documents) on dialogue between various members of the Government of Spain and the staff of the US Embassy Madrid about Spanish court proceedings about the death of Journalist Jose Couso.  I chose to focus on the Jose Couso case because of its long running nature and the opportunity it affords to respond to some of the issues raised in this diary.  Some may have read, in the few comments I have made previously about the Wikileaks releases of Dept of State cable traffic, that I generally do not believe the content of these cables are likely to be of much importance or the source of great revelations.

Now, for a few disclaimers.  I do not know any of the persons named in these documents, and I know very little about the Couso case.  I do not pretend to know the workings of the Spanish judicial system or the government.  My comments may, therefore, be prejudiced towards the workings of the US systems.  Nothing I write should be interpreted to mean that I personally believe these documents are actual US Government documents or that I am expressing an opinion about the legitimacy of past, pending or future court proceedings, the legitimacy or adequacy of the US Govt. investigation into the death of Jose Couso, or about the strength of the US Govt. or Spanish National Court (Magistrate Pedraz's) cases, or the correctness of the Govt. of Spain's (non-judicial branches) efforts regarding the case.  I have nothing but sympathy for the deceased and his family and can only hope that whatever the outcome they are able to find closure at some point in time.  I am certain, however, that they will always carry the scars of their loss and for that I express my sincere condolences.  

Nine purported Embassy Madrid "cables" are published on the El Pais web site.  They range in date from 2004 to 2009 and likely do not represent all reporting regarding the Couso matter.  In fact several references appear to other cables that are not included with those published.  For reference purposes these cables are listed below in order of date dispatched together with their reference numbers and date time groups as follows:

a.  04Madrid 002804, 230824Z APR 04
b.  05Madrid 003694,  211556Z OCT 05
c.  06Madrid 000722, 221733Z MAR 06
d.  07Madrid 000082, 161709Z JAN 07
e.  07Madrid 000101, 181739Z JAN 07
f.  07Madrid 000800, 271955 APR 07
g.  07Madrid 000899, 111630Z MAY 07
h.  07Madrid 001021, 251127Z MAY 07
i.  09Madrid  000496, 221316Z MAY 09

These documents represent reporting that I would characterize as very typical between an American embassy and the US Govt. in Washington.  I strongly suspect that they are also typical of such correspondence between most embassies (regardless of nationality involved) and their central governments.  One must remember that each document represents the embassy staff's recollections, in the case of reports on meetings and personal analyses/assessments. It would be unusual for a foreign interlocutor to be asked to approve or even read such correspondence prior to its release/dispatch.  So, it is possible that the Spanish Government participants named in these documents may not agree with the wording or conclusions one might draw after reading these documents.

Regarding the representations and requests made by Embassy staff members to Govt. of Spain representatives in the Jose Couso case. I found nothing unusual.  This is what diplomats do every day.  They represent the position of the government of the country whose flag they fly to the government of the country in which they are resident/represented. They talk to people in the host Government and express their government's goals and wishes.  This is nothing more than the day to day business conducted between national governments.  One might imply that activity of this character only takes place between American diplomats and foreign governments, but that would be an erroneous conclusion.  Foreign diplomats speak to members of the US executive, legislative and judicial branch as well.  This is the every day bread and butter of diplomacy.  In the Couso case these discussions legitimately concern a citizen of Spain and his family, three American soldiers, and the respective governments' responses to the issues involving these persons.

I see nothing (from the cable content) that would lead me to believe that anything illegal took place during or as a result of these meetings, although I cannot know what actual actions Government of Spain representatives took and the documents provide no indication of such.  Several of the cables explicitly state that both sides acknowledged that neither the embassy nor Govt. of Spain representatives have any ability or the intent to subvert the cause of justice or illegally interfere with the judicial process in Spain (see Ref a, para 2; ref b, paras 2-4 (e.g. Ref b, para4 indicates that Attorney General Candido Conde-Pumpido publicly announced that the prosecutors who practice before the National Court have challenged the warrant (arrest) for lack of jurisdiction...), but these would appear to be perfectly legitimate steps.

Ref d, para 2, indicates the Embassy has been engaged with Spanish authorities at various levels...to determine the full range of possibilities in the case.  I would take this to mean legal possibilities under Spanish law having no reason to think otherwise.

Ref e, para 1, Embassy officials met with National Court Chief Prosecutor Zaragoza and asked him if Spanish authorities would be filing bilateral extradition requests.  Zaragoza responded that he hadn't reviewed the case but that his office would proceed at a deliberate pace.  They also asked if the examining magistrate (Pedraz) had made a request to Zaragoza's office to prepare a report on whether US assets could be frozen as part of the Couso's family suit against the US servicemen. Zaragoza responded that he did not.  Ref e, para 4 further indicates that the meeting with Zaragoza was to sensitize him to the US Govt's concerns in the case and its political implications.  I saw nothing there to indicate that the intent of the meeting was to dissuade Zaragoza from proceeding in a legal and professional manner.  In fact Ref f. reports that the National Court subsequently filed formal charges against the three American servicemen. The cable also notes that respected figures in the Ministry of Justice and Interior and within the Zapatero Administration agree with the US Govt's view on the legal validity of the case and had assured the Embassy that the case was so weak it would eventually crumble.

Ref g. reports contact by the Deputy Chief of Mission (DCM) and Spanish State Secretary for Justice Julio Perez Hernandez regarding the formal charges.  DCM expresses US Govt.'s strong concerns.  Perez states there is still time for an appeal and he understands Chief Prosecutor Zaragoza is considering an appeal.  Perez noted that "his government" shared the US Govt's concern... but that the government does not control the judiciary and it might be counter-productive to launch a formal government approach. This section would seem to imply that the government of Spain might not wish to oppose the judiciary formally, but would assist the US Govt. in a response.  This seems to be a backing down by the Govt of Spain from its previous stance.  Based information in Ref g., however, it appears the Spanish Prosecutor (Zaragoza) did appeal the case to the appeals tribunal of the National Court.

Ref h. is a routine pre-trip "scene setter" for Secretary of State Rice to help prepare her for her upcoming visit to Spain.  The Couso case is mentioned, along with a myriad of other multilateral and one other bilateral issue.

Ref i.(May 2009) reports that Judge Pedraz has issued new indictments against the three American soldiers and includes new "evidence."  It also reports that the previous case was dismissed by the Criminal Division of the National Court for lack of sufficient evidence to support the allegations.  The comment section speculates that this indictment is also likely to be appealed by the National Prosecutor's Office again for insufficient evidence. It also suggests that "Washington might wish to raise" the issue with National Court Prosecutor Zaragoza during his upcoming visit there.

 To be sure, both sides were aware of political ramifications and public opinion in Spain, (see ref b, para 5) but I see nothing to indicate that special favors or guarantees were given or implied.  It would seem that some may believe, though I can't imagine why, that a national government is required to support every judicial action that transpires within its borders.  I would guess that every day in the US, multitudes of US Government attorneys go into court somewhere to represent the government's position (by presenting a case, filing an appeal, defense, amicus brief, or other process papers) in opposition to a private party or local government plaintiff or defendant.  A prominent recent case was the US Justice Department's brief before the US Supreme Court on Arizona's immigration law SB1070. Furthermore, the Government of Mexico joined in the suit against the Arizona law.  Would anyone consider from this that US Govt. officials were spying for or conspiring with Mexico against the hapless citizens of Arizona?  Could it be possible that Government of Mexico diplomats presented their case against the Arizona law to US Government representatives in Washington and asked for their assistance in formulating a brief according to US Supreme Court standards?  Or, is it just that the US really is just the 32nd state of Mexico?

How is it possible that Govt. of Spain attorneys had a case challenged or dismissed (how many times) and the plaintiff's didn't know?  It would seem quite clear from the cables and follow-up actions that the Govt. of Spain supported the US Govt. position (following the release of the report of investigation detailed summary) all along (See Ref b, paras 1 and 2, 3 and 4 and Ref i.).  


I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Dec 16th, 2010 at 03:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for your comments. I can only say this: the problem is now that illegalities were committed, the problem is that the government of Spain was duplicitous. Politically, it could not publicly oppose the Couso prosecution, so all they did was underhanded while denying any pressure form the US. The Cables do give the impression that the Spanish government considered the Couso case impertinent or at the very least inconvenient. But that was never their public stance. So I am not sure that "Govt. of Spain attorneys had a case challenged or dismissed" ever. I don't think the Spanish government has actually been part in the proceedings - the Attorney General or the Chief Prosecutor at any of the courts are not part of the executive branch in Spain.

El Pais has published a bunch of material and written articles about how the Spanish government grovelled to the US government over the years. There is one cable in which the Embassy staff write that the "carrot and stick" strategy "is working" but shouldn't be overdone due to the risk of frustrating the Spanish government too much. There appears to be nothing the Spanish government would not sacrifice policywise to be best buddies with the US. And, of course, the fact that Obama has refused to visit Spain (even cancelling his attendance to a bilateral EU-US summit) to this date continues to bug the Spanish government, so they will continue to sacrifice policy to make good.

El Pais has just published an op-ed by its director (Editorials are unsigned, this is not). I'll translate some paragraphs of it in a separate comment.

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 19th, 2010 at 07:21:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...the problem is that the government of Spain was duplicitous. Politically, it could not publicly oppose the Couso prosecution, so all they did was underhanded while denying any pressure form the US.

There appears to be nothing the Spanish government would not sacrifice policywise to be best buddies with the US.

My view is that most governments will usually give little more than lip service to matters that concern individual citizens and only really dedicate time and attention to broad issues of national concern.

The Couso family, I sense, would be far better off filing a wrongful death suit in US courts assuming there is solid evidence of wrong doing. Here their access to documents and major witnesses would be enhanced and some of the larger barriers they have faced that may involve face saving efforts by two governments would be minimized. I don't think they will ever get the accused soldiers before a Spanish court without some significant legal work in the US.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Sun Dec 19th, 2010 at 02:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think they will ever get the accused soldiers before a non-US court, period.

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 20th, 2010 at 04:06:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They could if Die Seriöse Leute weren't such a bunch of Quislings. They'll never get those who were politically responsible for the murder, but they might get the soldiers if they withdrew from NATO and told the US that they wouldn't come back in until and unless the US stopped murdering their citizens.

Which, incidentally, does not strike me as an unreasonable demand. Y'know, being allies and all.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Dec 20th, 2010 at 04:25:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I agree with Gringo that there's a better chance of success in the US courts. For example:

Cavalese cable car disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The pilot of the military plane, Captain Richard J. Ashby, and his navigator, Captain Joseph Schweitzer, were put on trial in the United States and were found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter and negligent homicide. Later they were found guilty of obstruction of justice and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman for having destroyed a videotape recorded from the plane and were dismissed from the Marines.
And, in this day and age, suing in another country is not as daunting a prospect as before.

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 20th, 2010 at 04:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the problem is nownot that illegalities were committed

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 19th, 2010 at 06:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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