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The possible demise of the Green Party as a Parliamentary party is largely due to their participation in the most unpopular Government in Irish political history and their failure to oppose NAMA or the Bank Bail-out - and now the IMF/ECB deal brought about by those failures.  They have, however, played a significant role in main-streaming some "green" issues and their elimination as a significant parliamentary force need not result in major setbacks for more environmentally sustainable Government policies.  It is a pity, however, that "Green" policies have, to some extent, been given a bad name by the failure of the Green Party to stand up for a distinct political or economic policy when it mattered most.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Dec 2nd, 2010 at 10:50:00 PM EST
The Irish Greens were suicidal just like their Czech counterparts.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 at 01:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
which begs the question: are these elected greens just opportunists using the green bandwagon to advance their careers, ready to jettison principle once they have leveraged enough public credibility to feel secure in the club, having found other ways there to become politically indispensable to some PTB, who'll grease their palm?

or: is politics so corrupt that people with sincere green agendas are somehow marginalised, no matter how strong their intention?

probably some of both...

it is very disappointing, and just like with the libdems, one must surely conclude that riding the devil's coat-tails is not the best way to the power you think you want!

meanwhile the planet broils, and the people starve, for want of a viable worldwide green movement.

we must be more capable than this to wrest power from those who could give a FF about anyone but themselves, and no interest in a sustainable quality of life for the rest of us.

there seems to be only one cure for humans astonishing capacity for suicidal levels of denial, since we won't take heed of those wise enough to warn us, indeed we insult them by lip service and co-opting their slogans to dig further in!

green_er_ cars, power gen from burning food, dioxin-spewing incinerators classed as renewables, sooty chimneys carbon-scrubbed, nukes as eco-friendly...

fucked... now there's whingeing that the solar/wind incentives are too generous.

it's like watching people self-immolating, and doing so with little concern for those around them.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 at 09:34:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No true green?

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 at 09:39:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A classical example of this idea (and the origin of the expression "sour grapes") is expressed in the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop (ca. 620-564 BCE). In the story, a fox sees some high-hanging grapes and wishes to eat them. When the fox is unable to think of a way to reach them, he surmises that the grapes are probably not worth eating, as they must not be ripe or that they are sour. This example follows a pattern: one desires something, finds it unattainable, and reduces one's dissonance by criticizing it. Jon Elster calls this pattern "adaptive preference formation."[1

i may be missing some nuance of yours here...


'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 at 11:34:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it's truly sad, isn't it? things are no better here in suomi. nice ideas, probably nice people, but sincere green agendas are always marginalized; here, there, everywhere. beat down into submission. always and evermore. america is even worse, they can't even get a candidate on the ballot.

why can't the greens unite, and get a viable worldwide green movement going as you suggest? it seems a lot of people are green on the inside, where their thoughts are, but less so on the outside when it calls for action. they always seem to fold, and follow the path of least resistance. they never seems to possess the necessary political acumen to move in the direction of actually getting things done in the political arena. wonder why? ha,ha, hee,hee. it might be humorous if it wasn't so sad.

by sgr2 on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 at 12:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it's true, it is funny in how absurdly unnecessary so much suffering is, yet the punishers and the punished seem locked in some kind of unholy matrimony...

maybe one reason for lack of commanding, charismatic, green movement leaders is the inner inconsistency, cog-diss, between the lifestyle of a pol, jetting around, and the personal example that gives integrity to the persona.

the further you get into that kind of double-bind, the less power you have personally, the same power you'll need extra oodles of just to swim upstream, let alone inspire others to do likewise.

whereas supporters of the status quo have the massive public ignorance as current to carry them down the river of their own preconceptions.

it is tragic, how much more pain people will manifest before they look up from the sports page, or the celeb vamping.

what are you gonna do? i guess the planet has to get so mad at us that only pols who walk and talk green will dare show their faces, let alone ask us the privilege of our votes.

meanwhile we skry the graphs and wonder what miracle could save us...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Dec 3rd, 2010 at 03:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The failure of the Green party in Ireland and other Green parties to deliver on their stated social justice and economic sustainability agenda has confirmed an intuition that I have long held; that neither of these are compatible with capitalism, or at least the very least the form of capitalism we currently suffer from.

And how can we ever have imagined it could be so?  How can a political and economic system dedicated to short term gain of the few ever deliver the long-term planning and social change necessary for a sustainable and just economy?  Consequently, the only Greens that can justifiably call themselves so are anti-capitalist Greens.  Of which there are many - but they are as scarce as hens teeth in Green coalition governments.

Tactically, it must mean that genuinely Green parties must drive hard bargains, be prepared to walk out of coalition when their policies get watered down, and be willing to spend more time in opposition.  And I mean by opposition not just parliamentary opposition.  Being a well-meaning nice person just doesn't cut it.

by Pope Epopt on Sat Dec 4th, 2010 at 08:13:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you make this a diary?

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Dec 4th, 2010 at 08:16:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yeah, seconded!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 7th, 2010 at 05:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... like they think they are special interest parties, and so pursue internal contradictions like adopting "fiscal responsibility" to look serious when arguing for specific ameliorations of the devastation to our life support system ...

... when the "fiscal responsibility" hurdle is there precisely to hamstring the ability of governments to do what they in reality have the resources to do ~ inventing artificial constraints based on the rules of the game that we have invented, as an excuse for why we cannot respect the real constraints based on the rules of the game that invented us.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Dec 5th, 2010 at 12:17:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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