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just because there were some conflicts during the "winter" doesn't disprove that colder weather has and would prevent wars.
by stevesim on Thu Dec 23rd, 2010 at 05:15:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't you confusing roles there? As yet you haven't presented any evidence for your hypothesis that extended winter would prevent wars in Europe.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 04:31:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking at one war that I happened to find a wikipedia list of battles on:

Second Northern War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Second Northern War (1655-1660, also First or Little Northern War) was fought between Sweden and its adversaries the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (1655-1660), Russia (1656-1658), Brandenburg-Prussia (1657-1660), the Habsburg monarchy (1657-60) and Denmark-Norway (1657-1658 and 1658-1660). The Dutch Republic often intervened against Sweden.

Looking at the main month (the one the battle was in or the one that has more days if it spanned over more then one month):

Ujście - July
Danzig - 5 years siege (not really a battle)
Sobota - August
Żarnów - September
Cracow - October
Nowy Dwór - September
Wojnicz - September
Jasna Góra - December
Gołąb - February
Warka - April
Kłecko - May
1st Warsaw - June
2nd Warsaw - July
Dyneburg - July
Kokenhusen - August
Riga - September
Prostki - October
Filipów - October
Chojnice - January
March across the Belts - February
Kolding - December
Copenhagen - February
Sound - November
Nyborg - November

Or by month (siege of Danzig excluded):
January 1
February 3
March 0
April 1
May 1
June 1
July 3
August 2
September 4
October 3
November 2
December 2

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by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 05:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and if there were colder winters in Europe on a regular basis, there would not have been as many battles/wars.

in North America, for example, there were some battles fought during cold weather, but even the tribal conflicts in pre-Columbian Northern America were put on hold during the winter months.

by stevesim on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 10:31:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
stevesim:
in North America, for example, there were some battles fought during cold weather, but even the tribal conflicts in pre-Columbian Northern America were put on hold during the winter months.

That proves North Americans are wimps...

"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet

by Melanchthon on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 10:40:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it may have more to do with lack of horses (and major roads).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 11:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it has to do with really, really cold temperatures and unimaginable amounts of snow.
by stevesim on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes! And, conversely, as is evident, really, really hot temperatures are not in any way an impediment to fighting...
by asdf on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 02:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and if there were colder winters in Europe on a regular basis, there would not have been as many battles/wars.

You keep asserting that, without giving evidence.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 11:27:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and you keep on proving my point by giving lists of battles in winter, and those where the inclement weather hampered the fighting.
by stevesim on Fri Dec 24th, 2010 at 12:46:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
stevesim:
and if there were colder winters in Europe on a regular basis, there would not have been as many battles/wars.

As per the example, winter was no obstacle to fighting, so that does not really follow.

stevesim:

in North America, for example, there were some battles fought during cold weather, but even the tribal conflicts in pre-Columbian Northern America were put on hold during the winter months.

Sure, seasonal fighting exists, but winter is not all bad for fighting. Depending on terrain and technology a frozen winter can give better conditions for raids and war then a swampy summer. And seasonal pauses are unstable, because if some tribe figures out how to attack off-season they often win, and then everybody starts doing it.

Anyway, if you are going with northern Europe as part of the countries you mentioned here:

stevesim:

it's not an accident that the best countries in the world to live in, or those who experienced the most socialist or communist governments, are all in cold climes.  people have to help each other out or they will freeze to death.

Then pausing for winter stopped sometime in the 16th century, when northern Europe was a war-torn corner of continent and peasant armies still could carry the day. 17th century with professional armies was much less hindered by seasons and the Nordic countries were no exception.

The Nordic countries are today a peaceful and prosperous corner where Sweden and Denmark has long given up trying to get hegemony over the Baltics, as both countries lost to more powerful neighbours - Russia and Germany - some 150-200 years ago. But that is really no basis to argue that weather made it so.

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by A swedish kind of death on Sat Dec 25th, 2010 at 03:04:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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