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I believe the measure of male domination remains the gap between men's and women's incomes. But it's hypocritical to whine about the income gap while simultaneously turning a blind eye to the larger inequality: not splitting family and household chores, which continues to be an area of unfair competition between man and woman. Men are excused in advance from doing nothing at home.

Because the extra hours men are spending at work instead are an example of freedom and human expression?

Anyone that views gender relations as zero-sum needs to be ignored.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Feb 16th, 2010 at 08:07:44 PM EST
MillMan: Anyone that views gender relations as zero-sum needs to be ignored.

Yes, well, the French media does not seem to think so.  Au contraire.

Also, as I commented above in response to melo, her positions are not as willfully simplistic as they come across in this interview (perhaps a tactic to be provocative, draw attention and sell her book), and in fact, I think she is raising some legitimate and substantive points that merit fruitful discussion, e.g. the personal and financial investment that raising children involves in modern society, the division of labor between parents in households with children, the impact of children on spousal relationships.  These are perennial issues, but with changing cultural winds (that Badinter alludes to, and generally attacks) and economic circumstances, they take on a renewed relevance.

The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.

by marco on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 02:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
perhaps a tactic to be provocative, draw attention and sell her book

Every time we discuss the actions of media trolls like Pat Robertson or Élisabeth Badinter we're tacitly accepting their narratives even if we disagree with their content - and we're tacitly accepting the level of discourse too. And yes, she is a troll - it doesn't matter how nuanced and rational her arguments are outside of this interview.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 03:45:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
MillMan: And yes, she is a troll - it doesn't matter how nuanced and rational her arguments are outside of this interview.

If you are going to accuse somebody of being a troll, media or otherwise, I think you should offer an explanation for your accusation.  (Getting lots of interviews in the media, through conventional channels or through backdoor connections, to sell your book, does not count as "media trolling".  And needless to say, advocating opinions that one disagrees with or finds offensive does not automatically make someone a troll.)

I had never heard of "journalist/media critic" Daniel Schneidermann before afew posted his comment below, but he (Schneidermann) for one does not believe Badinter to be a troll:

Badinter's constance is a testimony to the sincerity of her convictions.


The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.
by marco on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 03:58:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you're off beam there. Badinter is a more respectable thinker than that. She doesn't belong in the same breath as Pat Robertson.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 06:24:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
afew: She doesn't belong in the same breath as Pat Robertson.

A more apt comparison would probably be the one invited by Schneidermann, i.e. to Bernard-Henri Lévy.

The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.

by marco on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 11:20:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the moral sense, maybe - but in terms of who the media allows access to the pulpit, they're equivalent. Both voices are promoted over far more reasonable voices from the theological world and feminist world. People I've never heard of because they don't sell advertisement space.

Especially on a site like this, where we can promote such people, why, Marco, are you promoting someone who already has elite access (as TBG pointed out) to the media?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 12:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or alternatively, why did you quote this interview rather than a summary of her more cogent arguments?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 12:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite simply, that interview was the first I had ever heard of Badinter.  I did not even realize that she was all over the place in the French media until after I posted the diary.

In response to your previous message:  We often post articles/essays, etc. by people we disagree with here, in many cases to "deconstruct" them.  In fact, it is the very prominence that is one reason to discuss them here, in order to provide a forum analyze, and as the case may be, rebut their messages.

I am not promoting Badinter in the sense of advocating what she says or writes.  I have mixed feelings and am still learning about what she is saying.  But as I wrote below in response to afew, some of the issues she raised struck a chord with me, and I had not heard them discussed so overtly in the MSM before.  Part of the reason I wrote the diary was to see if others might be able to shed some light on her views and writings.  

The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.

by marco on Wed Feb 17th, 2010 at 01:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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