Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Yes, we all grew up on butter and sugar and there was not so many overweight kids.It must be something else...
Today's food is not healthy because of all those hormones, antibiotics, additives, colors, pesticides...and God knows what else they are using in the process of making food to get better profit. Not to mention GM food.Incredibly I can see here how even Chinese people are getting fat even they tend to still eat their food that never before made them fat.But they are using same ( Australian) ingredients.Ad to this that we are not walking anywhere today ( kids too) and it's a disaster.I don't see how this will change. Organic food for masses? I don't see this.
But did you watch documentaries?
First about why in developed societies ( and even China) people are having less and less children...and where it is leading when birth rate  falls to 1.2. They say that societies that reached this point will literally disappear...like Italians for example.
People in their 30s can hardly find partners, especially girls are not able to find partner willing to commit in this age and girls biological clock is ticking ...not that the man will really settle down and easily find partners after 40 and they expect it. That's one side of the coin.
Second documentary is about aging people that soon will make 50 % of the population in many societies...sad and interesting staff. I would like you to have a look at this documentaries...and comment.
   

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 01:13:53 AM EST
I get an "Asset Missing" message and then shown an advertisement for some show about Italian food coming to Australia.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 04:55:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can open it on my lap top but for some reason it seems to be missing when I try on my other computer.Yes there are adds first but then after that it should start...

For those who can't watch it here is something to read about it

http://www.throng.com.au/baby-boom-bust/part-one-missing-children


Part One: Missing Children

Thursday February 26, 8.30pm

The first episode of Baby Boom to Bust profiles four countries all grappling with declining birth rates and potential economic decline. Catholic Italy, a country devoted to family, today has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world. The dying town of Laviano is a portent of what can happen to any community or country when people stop having children. In Japan, where women are increasingly choosing work over marriage, their elders now fear for the future. Meanwhile in Australia, women in their thirties are finding it harder than ever to find a man who'll commit to a relationship and family, and the trend has spawned a multi-million dollar dating industry. In China the government's `one-child' policy has taken the country from one extreme to another within a generation. Consequently, an indulged generation of single children, the `little emperors' will one day have the sole responsibility of caring for many elders.  



Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:11:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Globally the problem is not shrinking population, it is growing population.

Us whitefellas is another matter. After going through the demographic transition when the white population increased a lot, and then stabilizing in the 20th century, it is now shrinking. Interesting, but nothing points towards this trend continuing in for ever, particularly as none of the previous ones did. Population for example did not keep doubling infinitely.

If Europe, Australia or somewhere else has problems with to few young ones, it is an easy problem to fix. Open the borders and let those that want to move there.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 09:22:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That won't help at all, it's just pushing the problem forward. Or what do we do when these immigrants grow old? Import Martians?

The entire demographic crisis is something of a myth. As the number of children have fallen as well, the fraction of the population that is non-productive will remain constant for decades. This becomes even clearer when you observe that as health improves among older people, the retirement age heads upward as well.

And when it actually starts shrinking, well, that'll finally help get rid of youth unemployment.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 09:50:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Open the borders and let those that want to move there.
---------
Yeah I don't think it will solve the problem too... not in a long run. All though we will all see more open borders and more immigrants all over developed world. Not because we love immigrants and diversity but because we NEED them or our economy will go down the toilet. Perpetual growth of our economies that we all see as necessary demand more people...and not only in employment sense...but also in new consumers sense.
Population globally may even explode ( especially if we do not make those poor countries rich, as we are ,LOL).But in this movie they say that statistics told us, if nothing changes, in the year 3100 there will be JUST ONE Japanese man in Japan. Demographics are going to change greatly all over the world. How this is going to feel ? Maybe in countries that are melting pots where nationality is not recognized (or important) like USA or even one day Australia it will not  be big deal. But what about Europe? Who is going to "inherit" Italy? Romanians, Albanians, Africans? Do not get me wrong I have nothing against these people but isn't it going to be a big loss if world loses Italians? Japanese on the other hand do not want immigrants on their soil. They would rather have robots...If they stay this course they will vanish from earth. Which is also great loss! Looks like some nations are going to be endangered species. We are trying to save diversity in nature ( animals , plants), what about this then?    
And about religion. Obviously those religions like Islam ( and probably others but I do not think  Catholics are in this group looking at their numbers) who are against contraception, abortion etc. will supposedly thrive...and overcome others. Especially if we do not help them higher their standard of living , which can only be done by women's employment ...I suppose...Then again if they overcome others  it will be only just...This was our choice...Just few thoughts...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 10:22:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not think the current level of children in Japan will be constant to 3100. Looking at the steps in the demographic transition each step is at most a couple of generations.

(See Wikipedia for mre about that graph.)

I see no reason why stage 5 would be an end stage, it seems more likely that decreasing birth rates for a couple of generations will trigger some societal changes that changes the birth rates (assuming a lack of external changes). So I do not think Italians or Japanese will disappear, but I do think their societies will change. Thinking about how might be interesting, the population will grow older and - assuming the difference in life spans between men and women does not go away - thus more female. How will that effect their cultures?

If the low number of children is considered a problem, the nordic countries has shown that greater equality and lower burdens on parents does increase the number of children. Paid parental leave, heavily subsidized day care, free health care for children, paid leave for parents when their child is sick and so on. If more governments see themselves forced to adopt such measures, then that might have positive effects on their politics in general.

Btw, if someone inherits Italy it would (demographically) more likely be people from Africa, then from eastern Europe or Middle East. Here is a map of fertility rates in different countries:

(found at Wikipedia)

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Mar 4th, 2010 at 03:11:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the movie they keep saying " if nothing changes"...Let's hope that something will change.

Paid parental leave, heavily subsidized day care, free health care for children, paid leave for parents when their child is sick and so on.

We in Serbia had it all during socialism...didn't change much of the declining birth rate.
Here in Australia Howard at some point handed real money for every child ( like in the movie mayor of Laviano).It was about $ 3000 per child here.It worked for awhile (all tho mostly for very young mums) but it's not long term solution.I do not know what is...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Thu Mar 4th, 2010 at 10:21:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

GREY TSUNAMI

In this century the world's population will grow
dramatically older. This second episode takes us
into the lives of people across the world already
impacted by the inevitable march of global ageing.
In China elderly people in the countryside are left to
fend for themselves as families shrink. In Australia
the so-called 'sandwich generation' finds itself
trapped between caring for both grown up children
and frail parents, with no prospect of ever retiring.



Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:24:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Japanese, who live longest of all, are looking to robots rather than immigrants to care for their senior citizens. Italy, the country which for generations sent its own workers abroad, now depends on illegal immigrants to care for its elderly.  


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:36:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Central heating makes a big difference to the amount of energy you need as well. We used to be cold in winter. Cold burns calories.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 05:03:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, small difference: 3%-7%, apparently. Which is a big cumulative difference when it's constant.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 05:12:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's an interesting POV that I've not heard before.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 05:54:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A good portion of the food we eat is to keep us at operating temperature. When it's cold we need to burn a bit more. The 3%-7% claim is from military doctor talking about the affect of cold weather on outdoor activities: I wonder if that takes into account the affect on the metabolism of constantly having to burn faster to keep warm?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:02:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard recently that in cold climates poor children spend so much of their food intake keeping warm that they grow less, so there is a correlation between income and body size.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:04:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then people in Sweden shouldn't be so tall...but they are.
I wonder if they are getting fat too? Cause they never had that problem before and having a high standard for decades the food was not something they missed...All tho they it much of the sea food which is much better...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:16:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Larger bodies retain more heat - heat production is proportional to body mass and heat loss proportional to skin surface. Volume to surface ratio favours large bodies in cold climates.

But you misunderstand my claim anyway. The claim is that among a ethnically homogeneous group of Swedes living in Sweden, those in relative poverty would grow to be shorter, on average, than wealthier ones.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:21:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I understand what you mean...in scientific sense...
But I am not so sure the theory is relevant in this sense.
Here where I live - tropical QLD, people are also getting fat...even Asians that are not genetically predisposed...so I am sure it's about food.


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:41:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We are tall now, but used to be short when food was scarce. There was a class difference in height back then, but I think that was the case in most nations since poverty meant not always enough food during the three periods of growth spurt - in the womb, the first 2 years of living and puberty.

Weight is going up here too, but not dramatically so. There is a worrying fixation on weight though. Personally I suspect that obesity (not just a couple of extra kilos) is often linked with an unhealthy relation with food, where food becomes a substitute for something else. And if that something else is to look skinny you have got yourself a feedback loop.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 09:12:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A swedish kind of death: We are tall now, but used to be short when food was scarce.

According to Barbra Demick, 18-year old escapees from North Korea average five inches (13 cm) shorter than 18-year old South Koreans.

A swedish kind of death: There was a class difference in height back then, but I think that was the case in most nations since poverty meant not always enough food during the three periods of growth spurt - in the womb, the first 2 years of living and puberty.

Demick also says that this adds insult to the injury of finding themselves at the bottom of society when North Korean refugees manage to make it to South Korea.  She says South Korea is a "heightist" society.  But which society isn't?

The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.

by marco on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 09:27:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't find it right now, but there was a German study (also discussed on ET), that showed that, while people are generally becoming taller in developed countries, people in the U.S. have started becoming shorter (the study seemed to rule out genetic reasons).
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 09:35:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes - as I've said before, anorexia is a recursive mental problem to do with wanting to be thinner (relative), rather than thin (absolute). It's the same problem with 'richer' and 'rich' = anglo nervosa

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 09:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 2,090,000 for cold burns calories

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 06:25:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
vbo:
Ad to this that we are not walking anywhere today ( kids too) and it's a disaster.I don't see how this will change. Organic food for masses? I don't see this.

i think the sheer amount and inter-reactional effects of the chemicals we are subjected to ingest have put much of the immune system into shock, with the results that instead of flowing with the fluidity of olive oil, the lymphatic system is so overloaded, lymph turns first to toothpaste, and eventually into putty.

this creates a lot of swelling and water retention in the body, i see so much of it in my (massage) work.

the general malaise inherent in so much of modern life leads folks to addictions, in an effort to find equilibrium through habit, and many find themselves eating way more than their bodies need to survive, jive ot thrive.

another aspect to this argument is the low nutritional quality of many popular (junk) foods. not only do they load up the system with many toxins that have to be neutralised/eliminated by the body, but they also leave us with an illusion of fullness, but still undernourished.

this is a vicious cycle, as the more ignorant eating that occurs, the more the temptation to fix the deficiencies shotgun style, just hoovering up anything that takes your (heavily conditioned) fancy, with the subconscious hope that satisfaction lies just a bite, or a meal, or a binge away.

as one's stomach fills, there is pressure on the vagus nerve, that makes us feel happy and content.

there is also a sense of animal relaxation/torpor after eating, that guides more bloodflow down to the digestive area, and away from the brain.

this digestive 'trance' becomes a kind of cherished oblivion for over-eaters, as their brains have not come up with better life solutions, and there is a strong compulsion to retreat into that semi-vegetative state, as reality seems hostile and incomprehensible.

eating moderate amounts of super-nourishing foods, drinking enough water (dehydration can lead to water retention), getting daily aerobic exercise, clean air and water, and a nurturing environment full of kindness will all be helpful to get these kids back on track, but fixing the problem with the sheer volume of junk food (and antibiotics for the slightest sniffle) in the culture is nigh impossible, and i have the utmost respect for those who succeed.

the corporations who bombard kids with ads for poison are as close to pure evil as we have on the planet right now, imo. this creates so much downline stress on national health systems as to make them almost unworkable. i've been waiting 30 years for people to wake up to this, and start managing their diets more pro-actively, but unfortunately the trend has been overwhelmingly towards more factory farming, chemical ag, shelf-life prioritisation, and ever more clever psychologically attuned advertising.

tragic.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 08:59:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are soooo right!

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 at 10:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Top Diaries

Occasional Series