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IMO these banking issues, derivatives etc. are more or less not the cause but the symptoms of the problems. We don't have a "market economy", but an economy of different kind of monopoly rights and structures. The money does not circulate in real economy, but in financial assets. It's a kind of georgist-marxist dystopia, where year after year it becomes more difficult to finance a house, public services and new enterprises (investment) with earnings from labour. Japan had a housing bubble, so the real economy shrunk and debtors/creditors got into trouble. When the economy was loaned up and could not take more debt, banks created some kind of "derivatives" to speculate then on existing loans. I don't see how these derivatives could be the problem. They are not at all real economy and have no cost effects on production of wealth.
by kjr63 on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 06:10:36 AM EST
When the economy was loaned up and could not take more debt, banks created some kind of "derivatives" to speculate then on existing loans. I don't see how these derivatives could be the problem. They are not at all real economy and have no cost effects on production of wealth.

Derivatives are credit instruments, just like loans. The fact that they may not be accounted for as debt doesn't mean thay are not. And the problem is not with the real economy but with the monetary economy, "real" economic stagnation being a side-effect of monetary stagnation due to decreasing profits.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 06:23:11 AM EST
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.."real" economic stagnation being a side-effect of monetary stagnation due to decreasing profits.

No.. Monetary stagnation is a side effect of increasing "real" economic stagnation due to increasing profits due to asset price inflation..

by kjr63 on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 07:59:17 AM EST
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When asset price inflation stops, the business class pushes the brake of the real economy in order to try to stave off the decline in asset prices.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 08:16:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the recent quarter in the US, growth in profits exceeded growth in GDP ... IOW, there was growing GDP at the same time as declining wage and salary incomes.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 10:42:37 AM EST
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Wealth capture is not wealth creation.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 10:53:32 AM EST
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But the wealth capture was slowed or halted when the financial crisis put the brakes on the real economy, only to be restored as the real economy started going again.

After all, labor markets are too slack at the moment for wealth capture to require putting the brakes on the real economy.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Mar 25th, 2010 at 12:06:38 AM EST
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Not only business class, but also so the called "labour parties." "The middle class" is the worst of them all.
by kjr63 on Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 01:26:19 PM EST
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