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Hi Man,

You should correct the feed in tariffs figures from €/w to €/kwh. Watt is measure of power, not energy.

I think you may be also mistaking total tariffs with the feed-ins. If the feed-in for PV is 0.63 €/kwh, then the total gets close to 0.75 €/kwh. That's a huge figure.

Anyway it is nice to see that the Wind tariff is actually quite low. It wont take that much longer before Gas gets close to those figures.

luis_de_sousa@mastodon.social

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]protonmail[dot]ch) on Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 at 10:10:23 AM EST
And btw, in Portugal this is not an issue yet because the feed-in-tariffs are subject to yearly capacity goals. Also, the feed-ins go down with time, both for new systems as for those already in place. The main idea is to anticipate the investment break-even.

luis_de_sousa@mastodon.social
by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]protonmail[dot]ch) on Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 at 10:13:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Spain has much the same idea of weaning renewables off of subsidies.  There are fixed periods in which new installations are eligible for subsidies.  The idea is to pay down the capital costs, because, of course, the marginal cost of production is quite low with no fuel cost and only O&M to consider.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 at 10:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You should correct the feed in tariffs figures from €/w to €/kwh. Watt is measure of power, not energy.

True, the problem is that I don't have capacity factors, so I can't calculate €/kwh from €/w.  The comparison is relative, but I thought useful.  

The PV tariff is huge, huge, huge. I imagine that the Portuguese us close enough that you get most of the graph.  Look at where the rise in subsidies is coming from, thermic solar.  Installed capacity is going to be increasing by 39.4% annually, on average, over the next 3 years. This looks like what happened with wind in the country in the late 1990s.

This is why I see Spain as the country where you have solar break out leak wind did, and it's a lot of the same companies.  As cool as the Pelamis contraptions are, I think that the breakwater technology being tested along the coast west of Bilbao is more likely to work.  With sea levels rising, there are going to have to be better sea walls built, and if you can incorporate energy production into the project with a small marginal cost, then all the energy sales have to pay for is the marginal cost of energy generation equipment.  That's an ugly sentence, but I think that the thought is clear.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 at 10:44:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ManfromMiddletown:
With sea levels rising, there are going to have to be better sea walls built, and if you can incorporate energy production into the project with a small marginal cost, then all the energy sales have to pay for is the marginal cost of energy generation equipment.

wow, that's visionary, (read first here on ET!).

nice thinking MfM.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Apr 22nd, 2010 at 01:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's an ugly sentence, but I think that the thought is clear.

It is a beautiful sentence. Complex sentences for complex thoughts. Except, perhaps, in academia.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Apr 27th, 2010 at 09:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you may be also mistaking total tariffs with the feed-ins.I think you may be also mistaking total tariffs with the feed-ins.

In Spain, renewables producers can opt both for a regime where the full tariff they get from the distributor is a fixed feed-in rate, and a regime where they get paid a surplus above the market price. So it's unclear what is called "subsidy" here.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 27th, 2010 at 01:36:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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