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I don't read orange regularly. It is an organ of the Democratic Party - and not surprisingly, it supports the democrat party. It likes to think of itself as left wing, and it actually is, but the bottom line is that it supports the democratic party. The democratic party is not left wing - except in relation to the republican party - and on a few issues it is not left of the Republican party either. As a coalition party, it does contain a massive political range - easily going far into the left wing. Occasionally it looks left wing. Perhaps that should be on rare occasions...

Obama is a victory for the left over more right wing contenders. (Scary thought that is. It was even kind of frightening at the time.)

I had originally pegged Obama as right wing. With his program of assassinations (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07/assassinations) of American citizens whom he does not like - I was wrong. Hell - if I was voting in US elections, I would have voted for him. Unfortunately, he crossed a line with his program on assassinations, and it looks like Orange is reluctantly willing to cross it too.

My gut feeling is that there is more loyalty than I would expect in other countries from those who are at the very edge politically of their chosen party.  I think that this is a "feature" of the US system. For a true test, perhaps a detailed comparison of Britain and the US would work - just how much opposition was there to Tony Blair within Labour.

The US political system seems to be truly messed up.  It is highly resilient to change, and it co-opts people - including presidents - a true melting pot. I cringe when I hear the word bipartisan, and think "one party state".

If I understand correctly, the bottom line for the difference in the US between Obama and others is domestic policy and the supreme court. I can't help but feel that it is only on point 8 that you manage to say something that directly criticizes Obama's policies , as opposed to the political system in general. It would be nice if Obama had what it takes to offer a different foreign policy than the republican party, and he did run on that platform... He even delivered - the western world is no longer slowly isolating the US. I'm not at all sure that this is a bonus for the western world, but it probably is a bonus for US establishment. Maybe it also makes members of Orange feel better.

The US is on the way down (along with a lot of other countries I suspect). Now is the time for the US to set the stage that it will in the future have to live and work in. Later will be too late. Unfortunately, Obama is not up to the task, and even Orange appears to be unwilling to confront the policies of their leader.

Orange seems to be following the maxim "My country right or wrong". "My party right or wrong". "My leader right or wrong."

I think you spoke at Orange instead of to Orange.

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 06:50:03 AM EST
Thanks for this perceptive response all of which I agree with - so it must be perceptive!

My take is that Obama is a very strictly disciplined and prioritised political operative.  I suspect his priorities are:

  1. Keep the US militarily secure and keep on the right side of the military industrial complex.  He doesn't want to be the next Kennedy.
  2. Get the economy moving again.
  3. Do something to improve health care coverage.
  4. Rein in the banks as much as his donors will allow
  5. Jobs
  6. Prevent the Supreme Court going fundamentalist
  7. Keep on the right side of Likud/AIPAC/Donors/Democratic party grandees
  8. promote a Green economy
  9. Reverse the worst ill-effects of Bush's foreign policy
  10. Develop a foreign policy more in line with the US's real long term interests.

Foreign policy can lose you a lot of votes in the US, but even a good record rarely wins you elections.  Its about the economy, stupid.  It's even more about what the donors and competing corporate centres of power will allow.

Normally I write from a pragmatic perspective respecting the realities of what is possible given the interests of the elites and the structures of power.

That is why some around here consider me a moderate or even a conservative.  Sometime I see things getting so dysfunctional that there is a serious risk of things going seriously awry - e.g. a serious escalation towards war in the middle east.

Then I throw out the pragmatism and gradualism and argue the case for a serious bit of change and say to hell with the establishment if it becomes more dangerous to maintain the status quo than contemplate the risks of radical change.

Then people think I'm getting a little unhinged.

So be it.  The price of being prepared to say the truth as I see it.  It has got me into trouble many times before but at this stage I don't care any more.

The privilege of age.

Frank's Home Page and Diary Index

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 08:07:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"My take is that Obama is a very strictly disciplined and prioritised political operative." Of course he is, the important question is this: who is he working for? Answer: it ain't you and me, or the best interests of the people of the US.
by US Blues on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 08:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Whos he working for ? Same boss every President since Johnston works for these days; as I wrote in my post above

Foreign policy is NOT about making the world better, or at least it hasn't since Roosevelt; it's about ensuring that the administration looks good to significant parts of the US electorate. Latterly that has degenerated into persuading significant donors that their corporate interests are best ensured with the current party in power.

The electorate simply get to choose which corporate representative is in the White House while the media ensure that anyone who isn't a corporate whore isn't electable.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 09:26:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sometimes life throws you a real curve.

e.g. a serious escalation towards war in the middle east.

Nothing new in a serious escalation towards war. Just not expecting one (nuclear?) with Turkey.


aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 09:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I'd agree that those are Obama's priorities. I'd suggest that practically any President we could imagine would have those priorities, the differences between them would be in terms of how they tackle them.

Can I be boastful and remind you of what I wrote nearly 3 years ago when discussing Obama's policies ?

It was Matt Taibbi who first identified the real problem with Barack Obama, that he is a largely self-satisfied exponent of the status quo. Jerome's recent (and necessary) evisceration of his foreign policy statements only underlines the fact that, should Obama become US President, nothing much will change. Not on the foreign policy front, and, especially, not on the domestic front.
[....]
But it's different for Obama, they believe in him: And he can't deliver on those expectations; nobody really could, but he won't even try.

We knew back then that Obama was the second most centrist of the Primary candidates and it should be no surprise to us that, by and large, he's not really changing Bush's policies. For one thing, he's too busy fixing the emergencies he's been saddled with. For another, he's got a hostile Senate who wouldn't allow him to do too much anyway. But finally, he's not somebody who would want to do "radical" policy shifts in the first place; he really is the consensus guy who wants everybody to get on and do the thing they'd already agreed upon and take credit for it.

It's tough that this is not a time of consensus, but we deal with the President they got......

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 09:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I like your comment about Obama being very strictly disciplined and prioritized - I tend to think of him as unorganized and flailing, but that is because I am a radical in some respects, and he is not a radical.

Normally I write from a pragmatic perspective respecting the realities of what is possible given the interests of the elites and the structures of power.

That is why some around here consider me a moderate or even a conservative.  Sometime I see things getting so dysfunctional that there is a serious risk of things going seriously awry - e.g. a serious escalation towards war in the middle east.

Traditionally conservative and right wing have been linked. I think that has been a mistake. I would see Noam Chompsky as a conservative. There are a whole lot of radicals on the left who do not like him, I suspect because of it. Angry Arab had a nasty comment about him (I felt out of context) recently.

[Conservatism] is a political and social philosophy that says that traditional institutions work best and society should minimize change. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others oppose modernism and seek a return to the way things were.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

The first part I agree with, the second part I disagree with. A left-wing conservative would seek gradual change towards a particular left-wing type of system.

There's a lot to be said for gradual change as opposed to revolution. (That's not to say that revolutionary change is never desirable.) I believe that the parliamentary system is better than the checks and balances system. The Parliamentary system evolved over time, and I believe actually provides better checks and balances than the US system where there is no clear chain of who is responsible. I remember cringing as the Soviet Union broke up with how it appeared that the US was encouraging things to happen as fast as possible.

By temperament, I would probably like to be on the conservative end of things... Maybe that's why I like reading your posts. I want to be a far left radical conservative.

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 09:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the official definition of conservatism, but I don't think it's accurate - or at least it's w hite wash job that doesn't truly explain conservatve psychology.

In practice conservatives:

  1. Value war and violence, and promote and identify with narratives of personal, familial and national omnipotence.

  2. Approve of strict social and racial hierarchies and are indifferent to - or favour - abuse and segregation of those they consider alien, different or inferior.

  3. As a corollary to 1. and 2., conservatives actively seek personal privilege and do not accept the rule of law for themselves.

  4. Conservatives approve of law for others when the law is used as in 2.

  5. Conservatives approve of 'competition' as long as it is supported by privilege. Conservatives do not support truly open, free competition.

In short, for a conservative to win, someone else must lose - and they must be seen to lose. Publicly. Preferably in a ritualised game whose outcome is rigged.

Conspicuously absent from this list is rational strategy. Conservatives are capable of calculation, but not of prediction. Most of their responses are reactions, not innovations.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 10:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in my mind, conservative and conservationist should be synonyms, and your position is totally logical.

as long as conservative continues to mean the opposite, in the sense of right wing pols being bought by polluting industries, and liberal means laissez-faire milton friedman 'straussian economics', language has become so perverted that up is down...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 1st, 2010 at 11:43:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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