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I don't know what to do with this:
EU leaders yesterday (17 June) agreed to curb excessive public debt in the wake of the Greek crisis, with sanctions for rule-breakers set to be based on debt trends rather than absolute figures in order to avoid immediate sanctions for member states like Italy, Belgium, France and Germany.

<sigh>

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:11:00 AM EST
with sanctions for rule-breakers set to be based on debt trends rather than absolute figures in order to avoid immediate sanctions for member states like Italy, Belgium, France and Germany.

Hands up, who's surprised?

We all know perfectly well that the economic indicators have nothing to do with it, nevermind the economic reality.

There are three conditions that must be met to qualify as a target:

  • You must be big enough to be worth going after - so Malta and Cypern are probably safe.

  • You must not be big enough to suffer from imperial phantom limb pain - that might make you cut the banksters off at the knees, and we can't have that.

  • You must be populated by brown people or Russians.

Any country that meets those three criteria is at risk of being attacked by the piranhas. Any country that does not is (probably) safe, unless they do something outrageously, Iceland-level stupid.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:18:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I give up, I fucking give up.

In Class Warfare, Guess Which Class Is Winning - New York Times

"There's class warfare, all right," Mr. Buffett said, "but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:22:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
on European Tribune.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 20th, 2010 at 06:23:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cheating, again...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:19:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wait until France and Germany turn out to have increased debt, and they go for the second derivative.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:25:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Three times is a charm.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:29:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we all agree here to say that an increase in debt is not worrying by itself. So this should be considered as good news!
by Xavier in Paris on Wed Jun 23rd, 2010 at 07:56:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, because they're not allowing the other players to cheat. So the smaller economies that desperately need stimulus are screwed.

Think of them as priests standing at the pulpit preaching against "company keeping"* and then going home and having an entirely healthy sexual relationship with their housekeeper.

* Young people of opposite sexes spending time in each others company without proper supervision, even publicly, was apparently a major concern of Irish priests. I have, in my lifetime, stood in awed shock as some fossilised maniac preached against it in a small village behind the back end of nowhere.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 23rd, 2010 at 08:04:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
What we need to point out is how rules don't apply to Germany, in fact they pressure the Council to relax them when they are in violation and to tighten them when others are
Eurostat's Selected Principal European Economic Indicators links to a table with annual time-series data on General government gross debt. This is Germany's:
1997 59.7 1998 60.3 1999 60.9 2000 59.7 2001 58.8 2002 60.4 2003 63.9 2004 65.7 2005 68.0 2006 67.6
2007 65.0 2008 65.9
In 2005, EurActiv reported:
Heads of state and government agreed at the March 2005 Summit to revise the EU's Stability and Growth Pact reform. Under the revised rules, member states must still keep their public deficits under a 3% GDP/deficit ratio and their debts under a 60% GDP/debt ratio.

However, the pact's rules have been made more 'flexible' across a range of areas. For example, member states will avoid an excessive deficit procedure (EDP) if they experience any negative growth at all (previously -2%), can draw on more "relevant factors" to avoid an EDP and will have longer deadlines if they do move into an EDP.

...

In essence, big countries such as France and Germany have won concessions making the pact more 'flexible' in various parts, adding up to a considerable relaxation of the rules. In return, countries such as Austria and Netherlands have won references to "enhanced surveillance, peer support and peer pressure".

The two thresholds - 60% for the debt and 3% for the deficit - remain unchanged.

Gee whiz, when the governments of Germany and France were about to have an "Excessive Deficit Procedure" open against them, they lobbied to change the rules. And this was in 2005, not in the middle of the biggest recession since the 1930's.
(links in the original comment)


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:27:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
European leaders, faced with the market borg, pretend to give in, while they are really not.

Can we really claim that deficits of 5-8% for several years are hooverian policies? Can we also say that this is something that should not be curbed slowly (which is the most that will happen under current "austerity" plans)?

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:36:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're complaining about the fact that rules are only for the PIGS and written by the BIGF(uckers).

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 08:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
European leaders, faced with the market borg, pretend to give in, while they are really not.

...unless it's the Greeks or Spaniards or Portuguese or Irish or....

Can we really claim that deficits of 5-8% for several years are hooverian policies?

The deficit during Hoover's last two years in office was about 5% of GDP.

So, yes, we can say that.

The existence of a deficit doesn't imply that the government is engaging in proper expansionist policies.  You can run huge deficits by gutting public spending and sending the economy into a downward spiral.

Which is what we've been talking about all these months.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 09:05:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sensible policy has much more to do with HOW the money is spent than on HOW MUCH money is spent.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 18th, 2010 at 11:14:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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