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have been tagged by alert bloggers as forgeries, some of them having been on the Web for years.

Link?

still contained internal tags allowing them to be identified as old photos from years ago.

Check the thread on this where it looks most likely that someone may have simply not set the date on his camera. (If someone could tell me how to check this data on the Mac, I'll be glad to do a random check on some of my pictures and see if this makes sense).

Even if the charges of forgery are false, the photos show chains, sticks, an axe- things that would be on any ship.

Precisely. Why confuse the issue by bringing in charges of fakery? All the Israeli apologists have to do is prove that they are not fakes, and they will give uninformed people the impression that they are right about all the rest. If Israel was going to fake the pictures, you'd think they would also include a few phosphorus grenades and other real weapons, wouldn't you?

But my main disagreement with your diary is with the title. I don't believe that Netanyahu is a hypocrite. My feeling is that he really believes what he is saying. And that is a lot worse.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 10:46:40 AM EST
The title was Juan Cole's, and the article goes well beyond the phony evidence Israel is releasing around the internet.

See my comment below, re. another article on the topic.

by shergald on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 11:05:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I generally respect Juan Cole, but I guess he's not an expert on technology. I see nothing in his first link to indicate that the pictures have been available on the Web for years.The rest of the article makes a clear case for everything Netanyahu is saying being wrong, but no hint of evidence that Netanyahu doesn't believe in all the contradictory things that he is saying.

You later link does the right thing, mentioning the "fake" story in passing, but not making a big deal of it, let alone leading with it.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 11:40:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm glad that you decided to actually read the article, anyway. I don't think that Cole believes himself to be a technology expert, but in quoting others, you certainly have the option here of contradicting him with your own technology expertise. I don't mean to be gruff here, but there is room for debate. I'm certain there are many proIsrael bloggers out there doing that right now.


by shergald on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 11:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, but in the case of the technology issue, there really is almost no room for debate. And having this phony debate is exactly what Israel wants people to do, because it focuses attention on what they didn't do, and distracts from what they did.

My technology expertise in digital cameras is almost nonexistent, but thanks to Migeru's comment in another thread I did my own experiment (posted on that thread) that proves he is almost certainly correct. My own camera (on which, like most people, I never bothered to set the date) registers dates about 3 years before I took the picture.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 11:59:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Correction: I meant JakeS, not migeru....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 12:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is most likely the case that the IDF forgot to set the camera as you state, though it is not a forgone conclusion.

It does contribute, though, to an atmosphere of unprofessionalism. I expect a higher quality of work from the IDF than I would from you.

Ok - maybe I don't, but I hope you get my idea.

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 12:33:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you haven't heard the story before, look at this account of how the U.S. military used black highlighting on a PDF document  to classify some of it. By these standards the IDF is very competent....

In any case, it's a combination of factors. If they had got pictures of real weapons, I might not have been immediately suspicious of the claim that they were fake. I saw the story on mondoweiss yesterday, but decided not to post on ET because I immediately suspected something was wrong.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 12:39:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the article first noting the bad datestamps, that's only an aside, and they focus on the ridiculousness of the "weapon!" claims. I found this one the funniest:


...
deepvisual says:
wow
they managed to use them while they were still in their wrappers... damn those Turks are clever..
Posted 3 hours ago.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 01:28:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of us misunderstood the point they were trying to make. I assumed that they were making the equally ridiculous claim  that they were bringing them to gaza to fight israeli troops with....
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 02:38:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whether it be JakeS or whomever who can authenticate these pictures, anyone who would take them as representing an arsenal of weapons is naively buying into Israeli propaganda. How absurd of Israel to contend that, after killing passengers, some of them should in turn fight back. Israel was shooting amunition even before soldiers rappelled down from the helicopter. It has led some observers on the ship to suggest that they intended to kill some passengers as a warning to future Gaza bound humanitarian convoys.

by shergald on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 02:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Authenticating" them is, of course, impossible. But the balance of evidence indicates that there is a high probability that they are not forgeries, in the sense that they were actually taken on the ships in question, depicting items that were found on those ships.

Of course, in another sense they are entirely and completely fake; namely in the sense that they depict items that could be found on any ship, anywhere in the world - kitchen knives, wrenches, whetting irons and so on and so forth.

The notion that the images are doctored is actually counterproductive in the extreme: We should want them to be real, for the simple reason that if they are real, they demonstrate beyond a shadow of doubt that the ships were not, in fact, smuggling contraband.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 at 08:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While there is no way to confirm or deny the validity of your assumptions (e.g., that the Israel troops were using four year old cameras, hence the deceptive dating of the photos), I agree thoroughly that such arguments merely diminish what happened in a fog of details.

It was murder on the high seas and no number of claims claming the passengers, that they defended themselves, is going to change that. The cargo was inspected prior to leaving port. The passengers were peace activists from over 40 countries, concerned with the plight of the Gazan Palestinians. No only did Israel act illegally on the high seas, but it has been acting with total impunity (illegally) in its attempts to starve out the Gazan residents, all while continuing its colonization of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

In this sense, Gaza has been nothing more than a red herring for Israel, which it is reluctant to give up.

by shergald on Fri Jun 4th, 2010 at 11:06:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The cameras don't have to be four years old. The software can be older than the cameras.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 4th, 2010 at 01:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, at this point, what is needed are the facts. Netanyahu however is unwilling to provide them.

by shergald on Fri Jun 4th, 2010 at 05:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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