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No, actually, just the opposite.  It's one of the reasons that I visit ET regularly and the only place I post comments regularly.  First - HuffPo , Second - SACBEE (my local), and then here.  So ... dickheads?  Never came to mind.  Intelligent ... absolutely.  Left leaning socially ... usually.  That's why I feel at home here.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 04:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK. So I said that shergald's diaries would get more comments if those diaries were better - ie contained more thought and less cut and paste - and posted less often (not once a day).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 04:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... contained more thought and less cut and paste ...

EXCELLENT!  Why do I say that?

  1. I'm gung-ho on education.  This whole conversation will hopefully make shergald a better diary writer.

  2. If his "cut and paste" material is accurate and relevant (assumed) and would not usually make it to ET, saying that it required "more thought" ...?  Hell, I don't mind raw info as long as it's accurate.


They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 04:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone cuts and pastes, they often just paraphrase, rewrite the writings of others as if it is their own, and then add an opinion. There is very little originality, simply because most things of importance have already been said. Personally I don't care as long as there are references and links.


by shergald on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 04:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Howdy sher.  Quite honestly, I'm in the middle.  The whole I/P thing looks like a land grab to me ... straight thievery.  We have so many REAL problems on this planet, species endangering problems, and this whole I/P situation takes up so much time, energy, resources, ...  what stupid nonsense.

Keep 'em comin' kid. (I know you will.)

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 05:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone cuts and pastes, they often just paraphrase, rewrite the writings of others as if it is their own, and then add an opinion. There is very little originality

I think you need to start providing some examples here, to back up that accusation.

But maybe I'm just repressing you with these unrelenting and incessant calls for evidence...

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 07:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're harrassing Shergald, Jake, and I find it's unbecoming your usual  equanimity and the editorial board's aspirations to international policy consultancy.

Salon is a C&P venue --presumably this is the reason why you and others instructed Shergald to post in future to fit that format. Take " Israel and Turkey: no love lost" or "Spain Crisis Report" or "It's not just about the ships." Review ARG's last five posts. Retrieve Mr Cook's LQDs, fairleft's scrapbooks, an InWale's TUC briefs... Explain why readers rarely comment on borderjumpers' regular dispatches --surely this series is "original." Tell us, what data analysis did this poster add to "Ups And Downs: OECD trade figures"...

If I/P controversy disturbs group hygiene, admit to an executive decision to limit ET community exposure to confrontational exchanges between subscribers. Say, one per quarter. Have Colman post another proclamation.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 09:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree, policing 300 visitors to the site (according to Estimurl) is too much.
by FarEasterner on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 09:17:46 PM EST
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The other people mentioned bring their own thinking and/or personality to the site on top of whatever repost diaries they submit. Shergald uses this site exclusively to repost material available elsewhere.

Jake should have backed off at some point - but Shergald really flamed out.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 7th, 2010 at 11:07:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flame out?

<squint>

Is ET a beauty pageant of "repost material" ? I would say so, to judge by the criteria you're suggesting. And if that analogy is indeed apt, Shergald will always lose. Shergald will always lose because every I/P news file --this "repost material"-- is an ugly, ugly reminder of an intellectual history and moral depravity abiding in the politicians, the leadership, about whom we gossip daily and money fetishes. Every "diary" entry is a testament to our impotent regard for policy decisions in which we do not participate.

Do you know, are you certain, Shergald uses ET exclusively to publish I/P "repost material"? Or do you mean to say, Shergald publishes only I/P "repost material" at ET and that reliable, that vaguely ritualistic devotion to the topic, is offensive in itself ... because you could retrieve the same news from GOOG's mighty syndicated feeds, if you wanted to, if you were in the mood.

When was the last time you wanted to examine current I/P events? And where did you search... Perhaps you launched the GOOG, Yahoo!, yer CNN RSS. God forbid, you punched a keyword into one of two ET engines -- would that word have been Israel, Palestine, or Shergald?

Come closer, Millman, and I will tell you a secret. DrMarketTrustee would tell me bitterly, "We live in a superficial world." He said that because he knew I would deny it. I appreciate the work Shergald contributes to ET. I appreciated Shergald's labors at the GOS, too. For I know, the ugly life is no easy life to lead, Millman. It is simply necessary. It is a prerequisite of beauty some of us long for. I will not deny Shergald.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 01:01:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Flame out - something like 50 comments of refusing to accept any level of criticism - and returning fire with a pathetic salvo of ad hominems against people who put serious effort into this site.

All over the fact that his or her "beauty pageant" material makes more sense filed in the salon instead of as a diary - where all the other news material goes.

Every "diary" entry is a testament to our impotent regard for policy decisions in which we do not participate.

If only we all followed a Christ-like path, evil would disappear tomorrow, amirite?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 02:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I don't know anything about Christ-like paths, but last autumn I did spend a few weeks canvassing DC for donations to Amnesty International. That wasn't easy work. Politely arresting the attention of people in a hurry is not effortless despite the inspirational portraits and messages on the walls at headquarters. I memorized a script and was on my feet for 8 hours. Each evening a crew leader debriefed me and analyzed my productivity ($/stop, stops/flag, flags/hour) on a laptop display. 2 out of 3 pedestrians that passed us by was either talking on a phone or listening to an MP3 player. I collected background on the issues from the web, printed it to share with co-workers. Some people who stop actually start a conversation. They want more than script. Two consecutive days short of quota triggered dismissal. The script begins with a smile, "Hi! Do you have a minute for Amnesty International?" The woman who barrelled past snarling, "You're an ass," was memorable. But so was the one who walked to the end of the block, then turned around. I messed up: We chatted more than ten minutes; I was supposed to close in six.

I pay attention to how readers "use" the interface or don't.  I was paying attention to the "level of criticism" that began in Shergald's last post before turning up in OT. And I first reactions were: the site architecture isn't deep enough to warrant this pretension to editorial integrity; and the frequency of these C&C tests are becoming routine...

to what end?

RLY

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 06:27:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are C & C tests, please?

(All I can find is that C & C means a video game called Command & Conquer).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 09:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Command and Control?
A management style, directly inspired by the military...
by Bernard on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 01:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the site architecture isn't deep enough to warrant this pretension to editorial integrity

That's true at the moment - but if the diary section were to become spammed by all kinds of LQD stuff that should be in the salon instead, the site will become far harder to navigate.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 01:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
some day, you may be correct. until then, Viva Lily.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Jun 9th, 2010 at 09:26:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, cat, it's nice to hear a just defence.

i too have appreciated shergald's contributions, and on the extremely rare occasions when he has commented on other threads, both here and at booman, i have been impressed by what s/he has to say.

it's a great pity that this flame war took place, i would be sorry to lose his/her work here at ET.

borderjumpers post lotsa diaries that don't excite a lot of interest, but are similarly important. neither do they post on other threads, but they are single-issue posters too.

it's not a problem really, but if shergald simply used the salon for what it's for, this whole mess could have been avoided.

now s/he understands ET better, perhaps we won't see this wasteful bloodletting again.

i/p is depressing, and that's why i too am grateful that someone reminds us of it, just in case anyone has had any new bright ideas.

because it's the cause of so much pain and terror in the world today...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 04:29:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're welcome, melo. Times are hard. Tension is high. Good humor snaps.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Tue Jun 8th, 2010 at 06:30:17 AM EST
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