Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
siegestate:
The tragedy is that if Obama and Boxer and several hundred others were to step up to the microphones and explain with persistent and excellent timbre that this is wrong, it would be sealing an invitation for the right wing machine to roll over them in the coming elections.

So ultimately politicians/leaders can only go as far as their electorates will let them, and their electorates are often willing consumers of the Fox propaganda machines.  We can blame "corporate interests" but they can't sell were there is no market.

So why do people ultimately buy into the hate narratives and fund the murder machines?  Why are the so called Christian fundies the very worst at doing so when their message is supposed to be universal love and doing onto others what you would they should do to you?

So how can any so called Christian or democratic society do this shit regardless of provocation?

The reality is that this shit happens because the majority are prepared to let it happen in pursuit of their own self perceived interests.  And people buy into the hate narratives because it feeds into their conceit that they are somehow superior to others when the reverse is often the case.

You are defined by the worst you let happen on your watch. The US stands indicted.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 10:45:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If Obama really wanted to do something about Fox and right-wing hate radio, he could. There are any number of ways, from tax investigations to antitrust legislation to licensing and regulatory 'adjustments' that could put the screws on the far-right extremist noise makers.

There would be ranting and yelling, but so what? The wackos aren't more than 25% of the population, and he'd gain votes from the moderates and the left for every move leftward. If the wackos turn violent, they're finished - most of the population will be sickened by them.

But - for whatever reason - he doesn't want to do this. The jury is out on whether Obama is simply bought and paid-for and his job was always salesandmarketing, or whether he's genuinely a softer black Reagan.

I can't even hazard a guess about the truth. Obama sometimes talks to the smart, non-serious, people, but he's clearly not listening to or hearing them.

Either way we have the situation yet again where as far as policy goes, the fix is in, and There Is No Alternative.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 11:05:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For Obama to try to shut down/muzzle Fox would be an open declaration of class war.  Whatever else Obama may have promised, he made no secret of his consensual/"bipartisan" approach to political problem solving. A hard left approach would certainly be to put the squeeze on the ultra-right wing and provoke them to violence - so as to isolate and criminalise them.  I don't see any stomach for that kind of fight almost anywhere within the US political spectrum.  So while arguably Obama could, he could not survive politically if he tried.  He would also probably be assassinated if he tried.  When politics turns to violence, it is almost always the ultra right which wins. The propertied simply have access to more guns and resources. Progressive change depends on keeping violence off the table.  A bit of venting by the extreme right is a small price to pay.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 02:13:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well said.

We have to out think them, and some how educate around them.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 02:54:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The jury has been in for many years: he's willingly owned by the money that pays for his political campaigns. That means, like Clinton, he has bought into the Thatcher/Reagan deregulation markets uber alles thinking, what is now called 'mainstream economics,' of the past 30 years. That being said, like any politician of 'my career first' leanings, he wants to win the next election. So it's always good to put public pressure on him and make him pay a price for right-wing moves, and recognize when he's done some good things.

Generally, however, we're stuck in no-alternative two-right-wing party politics, and mired in right-wing dominated media, and so there ain't much hope out in the real world now.

fairleft

by fairleft (fairleftatyahoodotcom) on Thu Aug 12th, 2010 at 09:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, the logic train must completely clear the station...if the US stands indicted, which it arguably does, and I as an American citizen am presumed to have some control and responsibility, as I arguably do,  I and all who I know also share the indictment...but it is no less true for me  it as world citizen.

While I can make and defend all the arguments you have made, I'm not certain ...for example, Corporate interests can't sell if there is no market. Sure, you have to tap into a dream to sell anything. But who doesn't want everything...there is nothing wrong with wanting everything. There are implications if it is taken at the wrong time, or in the wrong sequence or when other priorities are more critical or [insert list here-you can do this argument.]

For example...christian or democratic society do this shit regardless of provocation? There is never any provocation that could justify these actions.

For example; One is defined by the worst you let happen on your watch...yes, sure. But we are also defined by sticking to point and continuing to work to our goals regardless of the odds against us. And we are defined by the act of kindness that careens into other inspiring acts that challenge the apparently powerful but typically weak structure of the assholes of the planet.

I'm not certain, but I am pretty sure that if I went to Afghanistan or the Korean borders or Baghdad, or the West Bank or Sudan and said, "Freakin' stop this Bullshit", it wouldn't stop a tyrant or freedom fighter from doing what they have decided to do. Perhaps if all of got together and decided on the place to go to and did it all together we might get a couple mentions in some blogs, but it wouldn't significantly matter. It wouldn't stop the Israeli tank from destroying a the houses of a few more dozen Palestinians as happened yesterday. Maybe it would be delayed by a day, but for the energy expired, it wouldn't be a good return.

And if we were to somehow inspire a million people to go to Sudan and just assist with food and protecting and building and farming...well, we would have to presume that at least 100,000 of us would be dead sooner and probably more later. Perhaps if we got 5,000,000 activists somehow protecting the camps and rebuilding, perhaps maybe the families and friends of us all left behind would be able to get their 'leaders' to provide us some cover...but I doubt it, even if I could think of a way to make it happen.

There's a lot of people way more smarter than me, and so far no one has an idea - except learning how to connect us all, and how to educate us all without propaganda. This is no small thing actually.

And if while I practice learning how to get thoughts into cogent ideas, and cogent ideas into express-able language, and perhaps that language gets an idea of someone else going in the right direction...right now, that is the best I can do or hope for.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 02:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I forgot this one line...

So ultimately politicians/leaders can only go as far as their electorates will let them,

No; the leaders must educate, make the issues clear instead of letting the right wing muddy them up, and align the dream to the educated populace. In other words, lead.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Aug 11th, 2010 at 03:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Top Diaries

Occasional Series