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I never said that Iran was funding Wahhabist mosques.

No, you just implied it:

The problem is that these people (Fahd & Co, the Iranians, ...) are financing the building of mosques throughout the Western world... and financing fanatic Imams who preach hatred and Jihad against the people and governments of the countries they live in.

I would definitely not refer to Wahhabists as being a "certain Muslim sect". The fact is that it's quite mainstream on the Arabian Peninsula and Afghanistan.

[Citation Needed]

Oh, and when did "mainstream on the Arabian Peninsula and Afghanistan" become coterminous with "Muslim?"

Furthermore, its influence has been rising fast in other parts of the world thanks to the aggressive, expansionistic vision of its cash drenched financiers.

[Citation Needed]

Your blunt insinuation that Christian churches promote the same kind of zeal against Muslims as do Wahhabist Mosques

I don't insinuate that. I simply note that smothering Christian churches is also a good idea.

But I realise that to some people, bigotry is an irregular verb: I'm a traditionalist, you're orthodox, he's a bigot.

But I'd like to know whether you have EVER in your life attended a celebration of Mass.

That would happen to be none of your business. But I am familiar with the liturgy of the Scandinavian Evangelical-Lutheran tradition. Less so the Catholic tradition, which is what is relevant to discussions of France. But on the other hand, the Catholic Church has a somewhat higher political profile - and it's a homophobic, sexist and HIV/AIDS denialist organisation. Hence my desire to bring its teachings into line with the policies of the secular state.

Ottoman Turk repression in the 15th century

15th century? Are your talking about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (1881-1938)? Mr. Sierra, the latest and Final mass expulsion of Christian Greeks from Turkey took place in the 20th century. More precisely, it was between 1915 and 1925, that some 500 000 Greeks were murdered or died under the Turkish sword.

While I realise that the post that you respond to is on the long side, if you had but stayed your quill until the very next paragraph, you would have seen the following discussion of the Armenian genocide, which is also applicable to the ethnic cleansing of the Turkish Greeks:

As a nationalist project. Genocides were quite popular among nationalist movements at the time, although they usually had the good sense to practise such predilections abroad rather than at home.

This European genocide of non Muslims took place only 85 years ago... with absolutely no repentance from Turkey's leadership, which till this very day considers that it was justifiable policy implemented in the interests of the Turkish nation. [...] Bring them into Europe

You seem to be rather selective in your selection of early 20th century genocides. You might want to read up on Belgian and British activities in the Congo River basin in the same period. Something about throwing rocks and living in glass houses comes to mind...

You believe that it is precisely because the Turks are Muslim that they should be in the EU.

You will have to provide a quote by me to that effect. I believe that Turkey should be offered EU membership, if and when they fulfil the membership criteria, because Turkey is in the European sphere of interest (it's also in the Russian and Persian/Arabic sphere of influence, but I happen to be a European, not an Iranian or Russian).

Yet, that logic is flawed, as your apologetic stance regarding Turkey's recent past proves.

I am not engaged in apologetics for genocide here. I am simply noting that as long as Europe remains in denial of genocides that are orders of magnitude greater, then presenting Turkish historical revisionism as an insurmountable obstacle to successful European integration is... less than perfectly convincing, shall we say.

Sharia, however, is not an integral component of the main strands of North African jurisprudence

Yes it is. In Egypt (since you mentioned Nasser) Sharia is inscribed in the Constitution as being THE supreme source of the law.

The Egyptian constitution says a lot of things. It also stipulates that the multi-party system is the political system of the republic. Of one hundred and twenty-six articles of the Egyptian constitution, Islam is mentioned precisely three times, in a total of two articles.

By comparison, the Danish constitution stipulates that executive power resides with the king, and that the king has veto powers over any legislation. It also mentions the king more times than I could be bothered to count.

From this exercise in comparative constitutional exegesis, one would get the impression that the Danish king wields greater power over Danish society than Islam does over Egyptian society. If one were inclined to believe that the wording of the constitution is more important than the actually existing institutional power relationships, that is.

Augsburg Confession

This is a Lutheran interpretation of the Bible which is rejected by the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church. By comparison, the Koran (in other words, the equivalent of the Bible and not some sect's interpretation of it) explicitly calls for the elimination of the infidels ad nauseam.

So? Have you ever read that trippy story in the back of the Bible about the whore of Babylon and all that jazz? Oh, and while we're on the subject of comparative theology, the New Testament is peppered with references to the continuing validity of Old Testament canon law - which is about as full of barbaric practises and calls for genocide as any text you'd care to mention.

we're discussing North Africa

We're also discussing Islam as a religion which is intolerant of non Muslims. If my understanding is correct, Muslims do live in Saudi Arabia. Do they not?

If my understanding is correct, Christians do live in Utah. Do they not?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 02:04:08 PM EST
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