French Socialist primary : Round Two | 54 comments (52 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)

Yes, the one that springs to mind (4.00 / 3)

is Eva Joly. Anti-corruption, reform of institutions, control of the banks, what else you got?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 03:34:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm still trying to figure out which party (none / 0)

Eva Joly wants to run for. Is it Modem, or is it Europe Ecology?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 06:23:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It hadn't occurred to me (none / 0)

that she had centrist appeal. You think so? It would be a definite plus. There is a sea of people who are completely clueless about politics, but have a strong sense of the values of bourgeois democracy, and are horrified at what Sarko has done to the Republic. They were Bayrou fodder last time, and are complete orphans this time, up for grabs.

I don't consider this a cynical attitude, by the way. They are citizens too, their voices deserve to be heard. Through identification with a candidate, they may come to think about the issues a bit more deeply.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 06:58:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I wasn't refering to her centrist (none / 0)

appeal, but rather, to the fact she made a personal appeal to Modem's leader, a certain Bayrou, not so long ago, to run for his party.

In my opinion, now is not the time to entrust fundamental reform, especially structural political and economic reform, to someone without solid ideological bearings.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 07:28:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't refering to her centrist (none / 0)

But didn't Joly win the Europe-Ecologie primary for the 2012 Presidential election?

Economics is politics by other means

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 08:50:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't refering to her centrist (none / 0)

Yes she did.

Eva Joly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2011, Joly was competing in the primaries of Europe Écologie - Les Verts against Nicolas Hulot, Stephane L'Hommme and Henri Stoll to represent the merged parties at the president of France in the election of 2012. She was elected in the second round of voting against Hulot, with 58% of votes^[6].

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 08:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wasn't refering to her centrist (none / 0)

Then what is redstar talking about?

Economics is politics by other means

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 08:54:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Europe Ecologie's center of gravity (none / 0)

is in the center, it is not a Red/Green party as in northern parts of Europe, but more heteroclit, with a strong economic liberal tendancy.

I wouldn't trust economic reforms to Europe Ecologie any more than I would to the Nouveau Centre or other centrist groupings.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 07:17:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe Ecologie's center of gravity (none / 1)

Sorry, can't let that pass. Partisan sniping is fun, but that's counterfactual. Check out Pascal Canfin, check out Alain Lipietz, Pierre Larrouturou

... are these the people with the strong economic liberal tendency? Or do you have some other people in mind?

They are post-Marxists, is this the problem perhaps?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 08:25:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm talking about Eva Joly. (none / 0)

She is the primary winner for the Greens, running for President as a Green.

And yes, she did approach Bayrou to run MoDem before deciding she was a Green. That was only three year ago, and no, I Bayrou is certainly not wouldn't trust Bayrou on market and banking reforms either.

I said the Greens were heteroclit, you can state all the counterexamples you like but the fact is, the standard-bearer for the French Greens is economically speaking of doubtful ideological footing. I'm sorry, but I won't be surprised if she does poorly, the moment next Spring will be for clarity and forcefulness in the face of what will be a deepening crisis. IFOP's got her at 5% at this point, I suspect that is is ceiling on her popularity, but we'll see.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 08:58:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about Eva Joly. (none / 0)

the fact is, the standard-bearer for the French Greens is economically speaking of doubtful ideological footing

Because whe did such a poor job on the Icelanding banks...

Economics is politics by other means

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:01:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about Eva Joly. (none / 0)

Ah, so Eva Joly is the centre of gravity of the Greens. I thought she was the star personality we selected to raise our profile in the presidential elections! It's just as well we didn't select Monsieur Hulot, the sudden change of the centre of gravity of the party would have been quite a lurch...

Would you care to give us the benefit of your research as to the writings or pronouncements on economics of Joly which are in contradiction with the vast body of Green economic writing, or of the Party program itself, which are all quite homogeneous? Or is it like a venereal disease, transmitted by contact?

To be clear :

I doubt that you will be able to demonstrate that she is heterodox on economic thinking
even if she were, she would not represent the "centre of gravity" of Green economic thinking, which is well-established and very different indeed from right-wing or centrist economics.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:13:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Green economics (none / 0)

On which, see this comment and its diary.

Economics is politics by other means

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:20:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm talking about Eva Joly. (none / 0)

To conflate what Bayrou would do about finance (given his right-centrist record) and what Joly would do (given her long record as a fighting financial judge) is plain wrong.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No conflation intended. (none / 0)

I simply point out that she in fact had flirted with Bayrou, and that Bayrou is not on the left.

And then I further stated a personal preference for a candidate with ideological bona fides of the left persuasion when dealing with what is in fact a financial crisis which we will witness deepening between now and election time.

Nothing against Ms Joly, she certainly has established anti-corruption credentials, and I wish her and the Greens well. I just am stating a personal preference for more ideological rigor in confronting the present financial system. This is because while it is important to fight illegal and corrupt actions under the present rules and the current system, it is even more important to combat the corruption which is inherent in, and even defined by, those same rules and that same system.

This is why Montebourg was so successful, there is clearly a properly grounded strain of this in the PS, and clearly also in the PC and Front de Gauche.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 11:19:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No conflation intended. (none / 0)

redstar:

there is clearly a properly grounded strain of this in the PS, and clearly also in the PC and Front de Gauche.

And it's mainstream in EELV, as I have demonstrated. Where are Eva Joly's "centrist" economic principles? An incongruous transitive slur won't do.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 11:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No conflation intended. (4.00 / 2)

It's not my intention to proselytise or to argue whose candidate is better, I speak only personally, and do not believe I began the explicit advocacy of any particular candidate.

This being said, talking about rolling back the bouclier fiscale and auditing the banks, along with some pretty weak language about sovereign debt mutualisation, this seems to me to be weak tea, certainly not a specific economic programme which distinguishes the greens. We need more than this.

Sorry, I'm unconvinced, and suspect the votes will be garnered for other reasons, specifically the commitment to sustainable industries as an economic engine, which is the platform and has been for some time.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 12:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Europe Ecologie's center of gravity (none / 0)

If its centre of gravity is in the centre, I suppose you mean half of EE-LV is on the right.

Cheap shot.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:05:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think Bayrou is right wing, yes. (none / 0)

Centre-right, but right nonetheless.

Also, centre of gravity can simply mean the power center or the cadres, generally-speaking, not the average member, as you are suggesting was my meaning.

No matter, I'll stop commenting on this thread if it is thought I am being offensive.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:10:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think Bayrou is right wing, yes. (none / 0)

Now Bayrou is part of Europe Écologie? I thought we were discussing the position of EE-LV?

Economics is politics by other means

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:12:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, I accept your rectraction (4.00 / 2)

and I won't insist on an apology. One mustn't take these things personally.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Oct 14th, 2011 at 09:15:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes she did (4.00 / 3)

but Redstar is referring to an earlier episode, in 2007(?), when she was looking for a political vehicle, and had discussions with Bayrou about the possibility of leading his party's ticket for the European elections. This came to nothing, because it was around this stage that Dany Cohn-Bendit and others launched the "Europe Ecologie" ticket, bringing together José Bové, Eva Joly and various others, along with Les Verts.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Thu Oct 13th, 2011 at 08:59:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

French Socialist primary : Round Two | 54 comments (52 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)

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