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I would expect some clear examples, in the political space, in a European country context, preferably in a non-English official language country.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:15:37 AM EST
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JakeS
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:21:54 AM EST
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Bwahahaha.

I believe JakeS is allied with the Socialistisk Folkeparti which is most definitely not fringe given their ability to get 10% of seats in the Folketing, 15% of Danish seats in the European Parliament, and comparable proportions in regional and local elections.

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:40:27 AM EST
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I've discussed many things in the past with Jake, and to be honest, he is if anything much more pragmatic, and centrist, than the political strain of which I count myself as well as the political party of which I am a member.

My party has been in a number of governing coalitions and held a number of ministries over the past decades, including the last left-wing coalition here led by Lionel Jospin and the PS.

I don't think you have much background on what the European political left really looks like, else you wouldn't make such absurd statements.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:55:12 AM EST
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My vast ignorance is of course obvious. To an ignorant person like me it appears that the finance right dominates the EU, that the weak SD parties have been swept away like dust and the most successful further left parties are struggling to break 15% of the vote. However, thanks to your instruction, I now know that, as usual, none of this is due to any tactical or analytical defect on the part of the left, it's all due to the perfidy of the Social Democrats.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 12:23:41 PM EST
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Yes, the Third-way Social Democrats in the 1990s agreed to gold-bug- and neoliberal-inspired institutional structures in the Eurozone. They then proceeded in the 2000s to undermine the social safety nets and to ride the Eurozone credit bubbles. When the crisis hit they shared the right-wing diagnosis, they protected TPTB like the right-wing and then they got fully on board with the Austerity™ out of Seriousness™.

The successful left wing parties polling around 15% did none of this.

And you suggest the right strategy is to vote for the Social Democrats even if you agree with the left parties.

In addition, given a Social-democratic hegemonic party of the left and an also-ran party of the left, what vote percentage would you expect the also-ran to get? Assume the right/left split is 50/50 and assume the hegemonic party beats the also-ran 2:1 and you get the respective 30% - 15% vote shares.

On what basis you thumb your nose at the 15% of the also-ran calling it "not successful? Under European PR systems, that 15% translates into seats in parliament as opposed to zero representation in Anglo-American FPTP systems.

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 12:32:01 PM EST
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I am not at all sure I know a solution, however, I am sure that 15% representation (or similarly a few "progressive" US congresspeople) is not success. Success is when you, you know, win. Losing and giving impassioned speeches, principled ones even, is not winning.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 12:45:47 PM EST
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Quite. And third-wayers have been winning... what, exactly?

Incidentally, I seem to have missed your undoubtedly enthusiastic endorsement of the chaps who mounted a primary challenge to Lieberman an election cycle or so back. Care to refresh my memory on that subject?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 01:23:35 PM EST
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"3rd way" is a meaningless term either as a critique or a platform.

Your enthusiasm for Lamont (that was the name of Lieberman's opponent) at this stage is hard to fathom.

by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 04:27:19 PM EST
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"3rd way" is a meaningless term either as a critique or a platform.

Sadly, the third-wayers disagree with the latter. Which fact falsifies the former.

Your enthusiasm for Lamont (that was the name of Lieberman's opponent) at this stage is hard to fathom.

I have no particular opinion on Lamont.

I have an opinion on the need to primary a useless waste of space like Lieberman. Lamont could be an almost as useless waste of space as Lieberman, but hey - lesser of two evils, right?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 04:45:02 PM EST
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Given a massive incumbent advantage in a thoroughly corrupted political system, primarying an entrenched incumbent like Lieberman is worthwhile even if the alternative is only moderately better ~ and, indeed, proved worthwhile despite failing in the end, as the backlash to the independent run meant that Lieberman was well advised to retire after the end of the term that he had won.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2011 at 03:33:46 PM EST
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It was the semi-official name of the political platform.

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 07:22:13 PM EST
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Historically, it was a name used by groups that claimed to be on neither side in the cold war.

Right now it is a kind of vague statement of semi-conservatives.

However, I think we are at a historical low point for information content of political labels.

by rootless2 on Tue Nov 22nd, 2011 at 08:17:19 AM EST
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DLC: About The Third Way
On Sunday, April 25, 1999, the President Clinton and the DLC hosted a historic roundtable discussion, The Third Way: Progressive Governance for the 21st Century, with five world leaders including British PM Tony Blair, German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, Dutch PM Wim Kok, and Italian PM Massimo D'Alema, the First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and DLC President Al From.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 22nd, 2011 at 09:04:30 AM EST
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Here - from a non-english speaking country, no less.

http://www.irishleftreview.org/2009/06/17/left-polemicist/

by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:25:35 AM EST
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Ireland is non-English-speaking!?

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:36:11 AM EST
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ILR are fringe left?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:37:03 AM EST
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I denounce your hegoministic anti-lacanism
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:31:52 AM EST
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It's spelled hegemonistic I believe.

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:45:50 AM EST
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you try wrestling with autocorrect.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:52:17 AM EST
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Your autocorrect contains hegoministic?

To err is of course human. But to mess things up spectacularly, we need an elite — Yanis Varoufakis
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 11:52:46 AM EST
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no but it kept correcting to all sorts of even stranger words before i was able to get even an approximation.
by rootless2 on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 12:16:35 PM EST
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Sure and begorrah.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Nov 21st, 2011 at 10:37:19 AM EST
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