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The 23 EU countries ignoring the UK veto have been joined by Hungary, Sweden and the Czech Republic, leaving Britain alone

The Dunkirk spirit eh? Tell the bulldog to put his teeth back in!

The Guardian seems to be overstating the case a bit :

Initially 23 of the 27 EU countries said they would ignore the British veto and negotiate a new pact outside the treaty. Later the other three waverers said they would take the agreement to their own parliaments, leaving the UK on its own.

What are the odds on the Swedish, Hungarian and Czech parliaments all approving the intergovernmental fudge?

The disturbing bit is Cameron's apparent dog-in-the-manger determination to bloc

Cameron acknowledged there were risks in striking out alone. But he said Britain would protect its position by insisting that the institutions of the EU could not be used to enforce the new fiscal rules.

"While there were always dangers of agreeing a treaty within a treaty, there are also risks with others going off and forming a separate treaty. So we will insist that the EU institutions - the court, the commission - that they work for all 27 nations of the EU. Indeed those institutions are established by the treaty and that treaty is still protected."

Cameron indicated that Britain may go further and block the use of EU institutions if eurozone countries club together to shape financial regulations and labour laws.

The institutional solution would presumably be for EU organisations to have a dual legal definition, and any meeting which dealt with Eurozone business would reconvene in its "EU minus UK" configuration, sending the UK representative out for a smoke.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 08:54:53 AM EST
As usual, we are only looking at economic factors, and not national interests and strategies.

Whether the UK is in accord with Euro economics or not, the EU is also a union that allows countries to veto policies that go against their national interests quite apart from economics. For that reason alone, the UK has good reason to insist on the 27.

by Upstate NY on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 09:34:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On that basis alone, every one of the EU's 27 nations could find a red-line issue where EU policy goes against national interests. Without breaking a sweat.

But for the leaders of 26 of the nations, whether or not they genuinely adhere to the EU project, it comes down to whether a veto is worth the price.

The difference is that the UK has a history of getting away with vetos, without paying any price.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 09:51:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I am not saying they are justified. I am simply noting that the question of the UK's participation is not simply an economic one.
by Upstate NY on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 10:02:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
eurogreen:
What are the odds on the Swedish, Hungarian and Czech parliaments all approving the intergovernmental fudge?

Well, we have a minority government, and I think the votes would come down like this:
Government parties - pro-fudge
Left party, Green party, Sweden-democrats - anti-fudge
Soc-dems - will the need to look serious beat need to give the government a black eye? Sadly, probably yes.

Thus fudge will probably pass in Sweden.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 09:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The PM has made it clear Sweden will NOT join.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 02:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's that then.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 02:32:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See here.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 02:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also here.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 02:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agh, I meant here.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 02:41:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, and for the record I also made a faulty prediction when it came to the soc-dems, they actually came out against before the government.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 03:00:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They might be feeling where the wind is blowing. Once upon a time, more than half of all Swedish voters wanted to join the Euro. Today...

   

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 03:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Almost means a "neuro" is a non-starter?  I can't see Norway, Finland, and Denmark joining without Sweden and I can't see a "neuro" working without the Nordic countries.

YMMV


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 03:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Norway is not in the EU and unlikely to join in this crisis. Sweden is extremely unlikely to join a failing union, and I would say ditto on Denmark.

Finland is in a different position, already being in the euro. Finland also has Russia as a neighbour, increasing the support for european projects in general.

Any neuro would have to work with countries already in the euro, but as Netherlands also has come under attack, I don't see that as an option either.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 03:39:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your arguments are part of why I didn't see them joining.  The other part was the Scandinavian countries have already done the "Currency Union" thing and it fell apart for much of the same reasons the euro seems destined to follow.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 04:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say about one Swede in a thousand has even heard about the Scandinavian currency union of yore, so that's not a big issue at all.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 04:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure Johan Gernandt and Sven-Erik Österberg know and who else counts?

:-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 04:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Denmark is likely to join, because our Dear Leaders have an idiotic attachment to the fixed exchange rate with the D-Mark. It would be Unserious to float the currency and let the Germans deal with the unemployment and general misery their deflationary quackery creates.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 08:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
After the last year, year and a half?

Got to be kidding.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Dec 10th, 2011 at 12:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Dec 10th, 2011 at 04:18:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Denmark joining the E-Z would be a clear example of a rat jumping ONTO a sinking ship.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Dec 10th, 2011 at 05:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
eurogreen:
The institutional solution would presumably be for EU organisations to have a dual legal definition, and any meeting which dealt with Eurozone business would reconvene in its "EU minus UK" configuration, sending the UK representative out for a smoke.

That in itself would presumably require a new round of treaties. So you might as well go whole hog and set up parallel institutions.

It's a fail either way, so what the hell.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Fri Dec 9th, 2011 at 10:44:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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