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the distinction i hear being made is between islam-ist and islam-ic, former more general-sociological, latter predominantly religious.

did i get this the right way around?

i think it may be a worldwide renaissance, of youth and interconnectedness.

the arabs are the touchpaper now. i wish that tunisian who set fire to himself could see the ripple effect of his sacrifice...

what's funny is watching ashton and obama trying to balance their real allegiances with their ever so PC support of the egyptian people.

likud heads must be exploding. obama has delayed his speech twice now, i guess his speechwriters are consulting george orwell to come up with the right newspeak.

we have always supported and protected the oppressed arab world from evil enemies, er...

we will fully accept whatever outcome their elections will bring, and not try to tweak them from abroad or within.

even winning the world cup doesn't bring this many people to manic frenzy, lol.

these folks weren't getting their bread, never mind the circuses...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama busy okaying special deliveries of diapers to Israel because they are shitting themselves right now.

I hope it does spread and not only to the Islamic world, although many there are really in need of a wind of change.

Someone on CNN made a good point saying that in both Tunisia and Egypt, the armies decided not to fire on the crowd which would not be the case in Libya, Saudi Arabia and other countries.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:24:45 PM EST
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Just a week ago talking heads talked about a "chinese solution" in Egypt. Myself, I do not think it can be known either way until it happens.

A factor is that if the soldiers on the ground believe the demonstrators will win, they have all the reason to join them. And with Egypt falling, more probably believes that their strong-man will fall.

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by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, a lot of it depends on whether if they have general conscription or not, I would think.

and I have been saying for some time now that India and China are in line for some major unrest due to the inequality of incomes and other pressures on the poor -  bad environmental conditions, poor representation, problems with land distribution and use.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:36:17 PM EST
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stevesim:
in both Tunisia and Egypt, the armies decided not to fire on the crowd which would not be the case in Libya, Saudi Arabia and other countries.

wouldn't they have said the same 2 months ago about tunisia and egypt?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:58:16 PM EST
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I'm not sure as I am not really familiar with either of them.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:00:51 PM EST
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Perhaps not as clearly. I wouldn't like to go down into the street in that freak Ghaddafi's country, for example, and SA has such an archaic, traditionalist side, that both Tunisia and Egypt contrast with in terms of having developed some notions of independence, freedom, and democracy even though their republics were then captured by profiteers and dictators. It boils down to what ideals people share, soldiers included. I'm not sure what cultural influences Libyan and Saudi soldiers have been exposed to over two-three decades. Would Internet make the difference?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:03:49 PM EST
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afew:
Would Internet make the difference?

don't you think mubarak is regretting allowing it now?

they allow it to start to increase revenues, (hook) then, guess what? (barb), people see out of their fishbowl!

...and realise they're not just afew ;)

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:55:35 PM EST
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I watched an English language version of a recruiting film for the Saudi Army while installing video projectors in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1984. At that time recruitment was directed to the sons of the poor, bedu, farmers, etc. The title was "To Be A Man!" At that time one would still see old sheiks with somewhat threadbare dress "capes" over what had been the standard dress before the then ubiquitous "thobe". There has been huge change in SA in the quarter century since then, but many of the officers and non-coms in the SA military would have had their careers start back then.

With that sort of start in life the step up represented by the military is likely to make such personnel both loyal and conservative. If they were or could be convinced that a crowd of protesters was under the influence of or composed by outside influences they would most likely shoot. If not, I would not want to venture a guess.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:57:05 PM EST
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