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sorry.  still not convinced.

Islam has a long history of non-violence among believers, for example.  As I recall, that is what was being shouted in the streets of Cairo and Alexandria and Suez -  violence is non-Islamic.

by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 05:20:34 AM EST
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stevesim:
Islam has a long history of non-violence among believers

Are you serious? I would rather say that Islam, like Christianity, has a long history of violence among believers.

"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet

by Melanchthon on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 09:53:10 AM EST
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I disagree.  One of the central tenets(?) of Islam is non-violence against believers.

Against non-believers, it's a different story.

by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:26:46 AM EST
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That doesn't mean it doesn't get violated with abandon or hasn't been throughout history.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:30:15 AM EST
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One of the central tenets of all the Abrahamaic faiths is "Thou shalt not kill".

Can we laugh hysterically now?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:49:37 AM EST
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and 99% of people abide by it.
by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:58:21 AM EST
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In modern Hebrew "thou shalt not murder". In biblical Hebrew, I suspect the closest is "thou shalt not commit manslaughter". But that just makes Judaism a little less hypocritical than the others.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 02:04:08 PM EST
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I mean, seriously, it's a fucking religion. They find the justification they need for the violence they want to commit.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:50:48 AM EST
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hmm.  Level of violence varies with religion even within a country like the USA, so I tend to disagree.  
by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:57:53 AM EST
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In the US, the relationship is the other way around: More religious areas have elevated levels of violent crime, substance abuse and a couple of other things generally considered dysfunctional. But religion (at least as it is measured in these surveys) correlates with poverty and poor education, which are known risk factors for all these things. I am not aware of any body of studies that has stripped out those confounders, nor established which way(s) the cause-and-effect relationship runs between an excess of piety and a lack of wealth and education.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 05:59:22 AM EST
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You may disagree, but it would be better if you substantiated your claim.

One of the central rules of Christianity is non-violence against anybody, believer or not (remember "turn the other cheek"?). That didn't prevent them to kill numerous Christians as well as non-Christians...

As for Islam, it started with the assassination of caliph Uthman in 656, shortly followed by the Battle of Bassorah, the Battle of Siffin and the Battle of Nahrawan, where tens of thousands of Muslims were killed by other Muslims...

Do you want me to list all the killings of believers by believers?

"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet

by Melanchthon on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 12:23:18 PM EST
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