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We could hardly forget when you keep citing him, despite the fact that his "arguments" are more angry than intelligent, e.g. that Sharp was taking credit for the Egyptian revolution, specifically denied in the NYT article  AA himself refers to ( as I already pointed out) and he's not the only Arab who's referred to Sharp, and the others were ones centrally involved in Egypt, not just yelling angrily from the US.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 06:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep citing him because he cites many, many sources from the Arab world.

In this case, I really don't trust any American or even English news agencies' stories about the region because:

  •  they don't speak the language
  •  the don't understand the history or the culture
  •  they have an agenda, which can or cannot be unconscious, but still exists.
by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 06:44:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 Unsubstantiated assertions:

You don't know that they don't speak the language - none of their correspondents ? !

You don't know that they don't know the history and culture

Does Angry Arab have an "agenda" ? What matters is what's claimed and whether there is any evidence for it, not dismissing things because of even unconscious agendas.

Again you rely on generalised, uninformed dismissals rather than any actual evidence about specific examples which might support your allegations.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:32:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
even Robert Fisk, who has lived in Lebanon for over 20 years, doesn't speak Arabic

Thomas Friedman claims to, but confuses 17 with 70

Cohen from the NYT seems to have a good command of the language

but various Arab bloggers post about the language skills of the foreign correspondents assigned to their country and it is often repeated "doesn't speak Arabic"

by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:42:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So, for ONE of your assertions you have one example - and Friedman made  a mistake, then an example against your assertion (Cohen)  and some Arab bloggers say SOME foreign correspondents don't speak Arabic.

Is that it ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 02:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And your substantiated assertion is that the Egyptian revolutionary cadres are avid readers of the NYT? That while their compatriots were being slaughtered they were taking breaks to debate Brooks, Dowd, and the Moustache of Understanding?

Your compelling evidence for this is where, exactly?

I'm sure that Angry Arab will be delighted to know that his own biography doesn't count as evidence of achievement.

Still - I expect he can console himself with the thought that if he was writing for the NYT you'd believe everything he said, based on its proven expertise, impeccable track record, and convincing contrition when caught lying.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:53:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I asked if ANYONE had questioned the NYT's reports of what some of the people in the revolution had said in interviews.

They are very net-savvy young people so even they, especially since Mubarak left, are quite likely to read the NYT stuff on their revolution online.

Re the NYT, as afew pointed out:


The Angry Arab News Service


Comrade Talal sent me this (I cite with his permission): "I have to say that Tony Shadid made a huge difference to the coverage by the NYT of the recent Arab revolt. At his worst he was good, and at his best outstanding. The other NYT correspondents did not come close, and I am sure he would have been even better if the infamous NYT editors had let him loose."

So - despite the "infamous NYT editors" (a judgement I agree with) - Angry Arab is passing on the word there can at least be some respectable material on the NYT.


I'm sure that Angry Arab will be delighted to know that his own biography doesn't count as evidence of achievement.

I'm sure you'll continue to ignore relevant evidence such as Sharp's bio that doesn't fit your conspiracy theory.


Still - I expect he can console himself with the thought that if he was writing for the NYT you'd believe everything he said, based on its proven expertise, impeccable track record, and convincing contrition when caught lying.

If you don't have any arguments resort to caricature again. No, I don't believe everything that's in the NYT, but then I don't adopt the stupid position of rejecting everything that's in it either. You haven't shown that the NYT has got anything wrong in this case, so again you just caricature what it says.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 02:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that's so funny.  the NYT filters their comments like a Brita water filter.

even if they had read the article in the NYT and disagreed with it, that is assuming they  even exist, are you sure willing to grant the NYT the benefit of the doubt that they would post such comments.

LOL

by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 02:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't say it had to be in the NYT, does your mate Angry Arab or any Egyptian blogger question what they said ?  Anyway of course they do include comments critical of them. If they refuse them people post elsewhere, note that the NYT censored them and they look even worse.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 03:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly, that logic only applies to outlets that a) are not anointed with institutional credibility by being Serious, and b) have a non-negligible share of readers who might happen across such indictments. Neither is true for NYT.

Which is not to say that they systematically memory-hole comments contradicting their news and views. I really can't say one way or the other. I have never been sufficiently motivated to wade through the crazy in their comments long enough to learn anything interesting about their comment policy.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Feb 22nd, 2011 at 06:58:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the entire area is "angry".  why should he be any different, and what better harbinger that he reflects the mood of the populace?
by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 07:35:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because he's angry too he must be accurate ? - now you go beyond parody :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:33:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
accurate?  you mean like a Swiss watch?

or does he reflect the mood, the Zeitgeist if you will, of his people?

on the second point, a definite "yes"

by stevesim on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 10:43:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To this point, the most interesting aspect to the response to my diary is that no one except perhaps Ted seems to have bothered to READ the man.
If I'm wrong, tell me.

WHO HERE HAS BOTHERED TO READ SOMETHING THAT GENE SHARP HAS WRITTEN?

--Some small part of the body of work that so impressed Chomsky, Zinn and so many other luminaries of the thoughtful left?

The lack of any real support for your angry arguments, stevesim, is obvious. If you had any real ammo, you'd have fired it off. Nothing in your many comments supports your angry assertions, and I've read them all at least twice.

TBG, your gratuitous and unnecessary history lesson has so little to do with the question "So who pays for all this"? My head swims searching for any connection with Sharp Unless you're asserting that, as a taxpayer, he's as screwed as the rest of us. I'll grant that point. As well, it's equally hard to find a logical frame for the rest of your slashing attack other than a cynical refusal to accept the possibility that there might be good, honorable men out there, and some of them might even be Americans. That's a problem I've encountered before with your comments, but I set it aside because I respect your intellect.

But this time it's tough.
You treat us to a revelatory journey into arcane organizational trivia, and eventually reveal that-- Shazam! One of his donors has a bio that suggests a crooked financial history.
That's --it?
Jeez. Shades of Gene McCarthy. Sounds a lot like J. Edgar Hoover's elaborate decades-long search for evil in MLK's heart (or pants), turning up a used condom and a doubtful merit badge. Or all the years of frothing over Clinton's blow job- we all know such things rot your brain. Don't they? (Drool).

But, now that you put it all together for me,-- jeez. I should have tumbled to the plot right off. Stupid me. Somewhere under that single room in his small home, guarded faithfully by his single female assistant lies the headquarters of a vast, well-funded intercontinental PR plot, supported by dough from a crook who just barely escaped the slammer for securities fraud. Of course. Just the sort of thing Mr. Teflon would do.
A PR --or more properly, a psywar operation, an evil  Media Medusa that has used once again all the compliant, servile major media, but also has sucked in international leftist media from 15 countries (that I can count, from his site) and has flimflammed an incredible list of high-powered thinkers alive and dead.
Jeez. If the evil empire is this slick, this powerful, ---what can us miserable ordinaries do?

Think I'll just suck off the gas water heater.


Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 03:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excellent :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Feb 21st, 2011 at 04:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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