Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
ET Stays On The Reactor Case... | 361 comments (361 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 0)
Radioactive substance detected over southeast China coast | Kyodo News
  • NEWS ADVISORY: Not known which reactor plutonium came from: agency (00:36)
  • NEWS ADVISORY: Monitoring to be strengthened after plutonium detected at Fukushima plant: agency (00:34)


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 11:44:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 1)
ceebs:
Not known which reactor plutonium came from: agency
Spent "regular" fuel will contain plutonium as conversion of U-238 to Pu-239 is a relatively common side-process of fission reactions. In fact, that's how it is possible for reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel to produce MOX fuel containing Plutonium in quantity.

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 11:54:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 1)
would have thought you'd have also had Uranium as well as Plutonium, and the proportions would be much higher from Number 3. wouldnt have thought you'd just have one without the other.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 11:59:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 0)
I think the point is that finding uranium is not considered such a health hazard, not unexpected (the fuel rods are about 95% U238 whether they're fresh or spent). Plutonium is the newsworthy (and worrisome) atom.

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 12:02:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 0)
But the theory in the last few days was that the escaping contamination is the volatile gases only, as the partial meltdowns damaged the zirconium cladding only and there was no release of the solid material of the pellets themselves. So both uranium and plutonium would be a surprise.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 03:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 1)
The TEPCO report probably has a longer list of isotopes than just "yes, we found plutonium", but that's the one people will report for shock value.

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 03:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 0)
My guess: core starts melting -> fuel particles become suspended in water -> water is dumped into torus -> hydrogen/steam explosion damages torus -> activated water released from the containment via the broken torus -> heat -> steam -> plutonium etc fallout.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 06:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (4.00 / 3)
Plus, steam from still hot reactor cores could leak out through damaged gaskets or pipes and condense into radioactive water which flows to the lowest available point. We really do not have adequate information on the construction of the plants. We would need a full set of plans, sections and elevations to start to get an idea. All we have are simplified diagrams.

How many here have seen typical paper based drawings of construction plans from the '70s? There may not really be a complete set of plans. It depends on how TEPCO has dealt with legacy drawings and how well the "as built" modifications were reflected back into the record drawings.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Mar 28th, 2011 at 09:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (none / 0)
Ceebs posted a diagram elsewhere on this thread.

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 29th, 2011 at 02:32:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: ET Stays On The Reactor Case... (4.00 / 3)
And that is about as good as it gets as to actual information. It is all highly schematic. It looks like you know something until you want to use the information as the basis for some action, then you realize that it has all turned to shit in your hands and you don't know anything practical. Been there too many times on old school sites with fragmentary documentation.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 29th, 2011 at 09:50:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ET Stays On The Reactor Case... | 361 comments (361 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: