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Stuff I still don't know:

Have the steel containment vessels of any of the reactors been breached?

Has the concrete containment around the vessels been breached?

Were any fuel rods scattered/lost during the hydrogen explosions?

Were any fuel rods exposed because cooling water boiled away?

Did the rods overheat or melt?

How many people remain in the exclusion zone?

What kind of dose have they received?

What kind of dose have people living outside the exclusion zone received?

What are the likely health effects of these doses?

Is the situation stable, is it improving, or is a further meltdown still likely?

It's nice that TEPCO has managed to find dosimeters for its workers and has been making some interesting home movies, but I'd rather have some direct answers to simple questions.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 01:28:01 PM EST
Theres a figure that around 100 people are still inside the exclusion zone apart from plant workers and refuse to leave, but that's the only one I think there's any kind of definitive answer to.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 01:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know these:

Were any fuel rods scattered/lost during the hydrogen explosions?

Heh no.

Were any fuel rods exposed because cooling water boiled away?

Yes.

Did the rods overheat or melt?

Yes, during the time without any cooling when water level dropped a lot (before the start of the seawater injection). the question is the extent of that melt.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 03:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DoDo:
You know these:

Were any fuel rods scattered/lost during the hydrogen explosions?

Heh no.

im not entirely convinced, over on physics review there is a deal of debate about the thermal image photos, especially the ones of reactor 4, the problem being some people think that the thermal camera pictures if overlaid with designs of the reactor spent fuel floor seem to show that the empty reactor is a bigger hotspot than the spent fuel pool. one argument is that the reactor top was open and spent fuel rods have been thrown into the reactor compartment, but there just isn't enough information to tell.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 05:00:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
spent fuel rods have been thrown into the reactor compartment

That should be impossible, as at the time the spent fuel rods should have been under at least 5 metres of water. They would have had to have been thrown upwards by an explosive force pushing from above, enter a ballistic orbit and hit the open reactor tank, given that it was open, which is impossible if the reactor was operating. Which it was (or rather had been before the SCRAM), as meltdown would otherwise have been impossible.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 05:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thats how the argument appears to be running, people not seeing how it can be occurring due to the explosion, vs people who wonder how the heat can be occurring otherwise.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 05:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Untitled Document
Images for reactor 4, questions regarding the heat in the building. #4 has the core removed and an open reactor well according to TEPCO


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 07:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hum... my first observation on that link is that the author 'evaluates' the colour coding, without noticing that the temperature scale changes... The second is that 'hot spot' locations don't seem to be fixed. The third is that according to the AREVA slides, the open reactor well is filled with water.

I also suspect that there is no direct temperature observation of the SFP on the thermograms (possibly due to the water vapour over it): the pond should be boiling or near boiling temperature, not 30-47°C.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Apr 5th, 2011 at 01:23:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To be clear - those questions (and your answer) - are about the spent fuel rods.

The state of the active fuel rods seems to be somewhere between "toasty" and "slag."

I could also be wondering how exactly you can decommission a melted reactor core without entombment and lead-shielded robots.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 06:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seeing as the ones here, without the slag or fuel the approach seems to be give us thirty years for things to cool down and for us to think about it... and will still involve shielded robots....

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Apr 4th, 2011 at 07:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In thirty years we could have radiation powered robots for clean-up. The wonders of nuclear energy!

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Apr 5th, 2011 at 03:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
lol

could be radiation powers EVERYTHING by then...
some lichens'll prolly make it ok

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 06:25:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reactor rods blown outside?! (brown "rusty" things on the right?)

by das monde on Sun Apr 10th, 2011 at 10:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sigh. Would they be reactor rods, they would glow red, reactor rods aren't made of iron to rust like iron, and there were plenty of steel beams flying around...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 01:32:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who says they are of iron? How long reactor rods would glow red?
by das monde on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 01:45:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who says they are of iron?

"Rusty". Red coloured rust is the oxidation of iron. The oxides of other metals have different colours, for example, zirconium oxide (the oxide of zirconium, the material of the cladding of the fuel rods) is white. Zirconium itself and zircaloy is metallic (see photo in your link).

How long reactor rods would glow red?

They would glow red until short half-life breakdown products of uranium decay enough for surface temperatures to drop below c. 600°C. They would heat up way past that. For scale, according to slide 19 of the Mathias Braun/Areva presentation, the core of No. 3 reached 1,800°C when left exposed for 7 hours, and the core of No. 1, which was exposed for 27 hours, even reached 2,700°C.

The above is rods from the core; but I see now that your link hypothesizes rods from spent fuel pools, which is indeed more in line with the location of the photo next to No. 4. Those rods would likely not glow, but they would not be 'rusty' either. Also, I doubt that the fuel rod assemblies and the fuel rods themselves would stay intact upon impact after falling dozens of metres (again see the fuel rod photos in your link).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 09:19:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By "rusty" I referred to the color.
by das monde on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 09:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I forgot: even 200-300°C spent fuel rods that don't glow would have shown up as the hottest hot spots on the thermal images.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Apr 12th, 2011 at 02:50:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
More likely to be beams from the reactor building structure. The red is also likely paint.

Economics is politics by other means
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 04:08:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To boot, you can see that those rods aren't rods (square cross section) but I-beams.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 09:07:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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