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That's pretty slow for a train though: at 60km/hour average it would have taken just 7 days, 16 days is an average of just 26km/hour!

Where was it held up?

by njh on Fri Apr 8th, 2011 at 06:08:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At gauge change and voltage change points resp. borders certainly, at main stations and along the route when an express train had to pass, probably. Russian Railways has a project named "Trans-Siberian in Seven Days", which aims to bring down container train times from 14 days in 2008 to 7 days in 2012, and the main improvements needed are better organisation, signalling and station operation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 02:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, given that it's freight I'd think the corollary question would be: How slow would a freight train have to travel to achieve a ton-kilometer comparable to seaborne freight?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 04:32:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It might not matter if the energy can be provided by renewables rather than oil.
by njh on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 05:39:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's not forget sails...

Wind-Powered Cargo Ship Sets Sail : NPR

January 22, 2008

Welcome to the "green" age of commercial shipping. A German-made cargo ship will soon set sail, literally. The ship will be carried over the water partly by wind power.

The sails are from a German company called SkySails, and they're really more like giant parachutes. Each sail is about the size of a football field.

by Bernard (bernard) on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 08:22:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Given what has already been stated:

DoDo:

This took half the time it would have taken had the journey been made by sea, which is how most of China's goods enter Europe currently.

njh:

That's pretty slow for a train though: at 60km/hour average it would have taken just 7 days, 16 days is an average of just 26km/hour!

The answer should be 13 km/h.

13 km/h is a decent jogging speed or a slow bike ride. So for speed, a pony-express of transport bikers can beat boats from China to Europe.



Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 09:09:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure this follows.  A bike might be less efficient than a boat at that speed - for a start it would have vastly more surface area (and hence drag).  We could imagine trains powered by teams of fit peddlers (peddling their bikes :) sitting inside a hollowed out locomotive.  But then why not power them by electric wires coming from whatever source is cheapest (under whichever metric you wish).

However you are presuming that bikes are efficient for locomotive power, they are not.  They are efficient for moving people, but for moving cargo I expect wind or solar to be a better option (including embodied resources).

An idea I tried to promote on a disused rail line between two towns which had a fair amount of freight exchange was to buy a few rail container wagons, cover their roofs in solar panels, with a controller to connect to a motor.  Each wagon would be self powered, whirring along at whatever speed it could achieve (perhaps 5km/hour) travelling to the other town.  It could then provide pretty much free cartage.  Of course it would be too slow, and there were all sorts of objections with respect to safety, vandalism, theft, transloading, cost, getting stuck under bridges.

by njh on Sat Apr 9th, 2011 at 07:28:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
njh:
 We could imagine trains powered by teams of fit peddlers (peddling their bikes :) sitting inside a hollowed out locomotive.

aaargh, down into the galleys with ya matey!

love your idea with the solar trains, i see horse-barge-canal combos probably making a big comeback in some parts of the world, ditto woodgas transportation and low tech windmills for wells and irrigation and enough juice to run dialup internet.

land- and ice- sailing, pedal trains. mules will make a massive comeback...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Apr 10th, 2011 at 03:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My point was not that bikes are an efficient mode of transportation for bulk transport, only that it could be faster then boats - thus pointing to how slow the boat transports are.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Sun Apr 10th, 2011 at 08:24:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The boat route is longer, so the boats are actually closer in speed to trains. But they don't stop.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Apr 10th, 2011 at 01:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apart from at canals and ports.
by njh on Mon Apr 11th, 2011 at 04:19:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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