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Of course the fact that Germany will have (perhaps) to import more fuel in ten years has not much to do with the current economy. The reactors shut down are old, small, off the net for months and years anyway, All, newer, bigger , important nuclear plants will operate for a decade at least.

Whatever; as things stand, nobody cares much for the opinion of the rest of the world in Germany now, at least regarding energy.

by IM on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:14:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
nobody cares much for the opinion of the rest of the world in Germany now
Ain't that the truth?
Frédéric Lemaitre warns of a German Sonderweg

Writing in Le Monde the paper's Berlin correspondent Frédéric Lemaitre warns of a German Sonderweg (exceptionalism) for which he cites three examples: The country's decision to abandon nuclear energy by 2022, the German stance on the euro rescue programs and the security policy such as Libya or the decision to massively reduce the number of German troops without having consulted with its neighbours. Lemaitre complains Germany engages into those unilateral decisions which have obvious consequences for many and sometimes all other EU countries without even realizing those consequences.



Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I should have known better then to feed your addiction.

On the merits, ending nuclear power is different. The other positions mentioned have a lot of support around the world. (Doesn't mean they are correct)  

by IM on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:39:25 AM EST
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Easy on the ad-hominems, Mensch.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:46:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Exasperation, nothing more.
by IM on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 06:24:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I find 16-month-long slow-motion trainwrecks exasperating.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 06:41:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And what does that have to do with the subject of my diary?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:00:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I should't get my news from that self-hating German, Münchau.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And that has to what exactly with energy policy?

Furthermore the geram stance in the euro crisis, right or wrong, is shard by the other core countries. So it can hardly be a sonderweg.

And stop bringing nationality into everything, that is ad hominem too.

by IM on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 06:21:28 AM EST
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And please don't use me as a stand in for others, e. g. Merkel, Weber or Stark. I never said anything about self-hating and wuold prefer you only engage my actual words.
by IM on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 06:35:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"The German position" on the creditor bailout does not enjoy widespread support. Germany is unique in the insistence and vehemence of their IMF-style conditionalities.

Everybody else I've seen voice an opinion is either of the opinion that the creditors should go whistle for their money, or that the creditors should be bailed out as smoothly as possible. German insistence on conditionalities even the IMF can tell are impossible to meet (and would be insane even if they were possible) is Unhelpful in the latter regard. So is the German deference to Bild Zeitung on matters of foreign policy.

And then, of course, there's the people who actually understand basic national accounting, who insist that the only viable solutions are to either force the ECB to monetise the debt, default and force the ECB to monetise all new debt going forward, or impose export controls. But we are Unserious.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:57:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean outside the Netherlands or Finland or France or Austria?
by IM on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 06:23:03 AM EST
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I must no admit to be confused as to what are exactly the positions of "Germany," the ECB and the IMF.

What you seem to hear most on the debate are the (often needlessly provocative) outbursts of semi-dissidents within official entities or the (usually unhelpful) meta-commentary of various officials.

What entities do, what they official say, and what they unofficially think seem to be 3 different things - which you need to multiply by the number of parties involved.

Result = confusion and thus the ever-worsening perception of crisis by outsiders.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 07:21:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany is unique in the insistence and vehemence of their IMF-style conditionalities.

Eh? If only that would be the case. But, from Juncker's privatise-national-heritage call to Bini Smagi's utterances, too many seem to sing the same or similar songs.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 04:58:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German deference to Bild Zeitung on matters of foreign policy

Eh²? Bild is reliably Atlanticist.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jun 4th, 2011 at 04:41:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ignoring the confirmation bias and the Atlanticist whining usually behind the Libya thing, it's interesting how this is spun even in a center-left paper in pro-nuclear France. Germany isn't simply standing accused of going it alone in the nuclear phaseout, but of offering an example to follow to Switzerland (where a much slower phaseout by 2034 was proposed by the government) and Italy (where a referendum is upcoming on 12-13 June, which the opposition treats as another opportunity to defeat Berlusconi, who first proposed a nuclear revival) – and even France's reluctance to go ahead with a second EPR (no, cost overruns have nothing to do with it). The dependence on Russia thing also comes up, renewables don't.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jun 4th, 2011 at 04:37:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

nobody cares much for the opinion of the rest of the world in Germany now, at least regarding energy.

And rightly so. Most of what Germany hears is the "Serious" position that renewables can never take up a meaningful chunk of generation, that dealing with Gazprom is short-sighted and that closing down nukes is backward and ayatollahesque, when

  1. large scale renewables are already a reality today, and plans towards their extension are well under way;

  2. Germany (like France and Italy - no conflict between these countries on this) has been dealing with Gazprom for 40-odd years and they know how to do this. The 3 countries have needed to import close to 100% of their gas all along, so import dependency is not something new or scary like it seems to be for the UK

  3. Germany has been debating its exit from nuclear for more than a few years, so it's not like this is new. The fundamentally different approach of France and Germany on nukes is precisely one of the reasons why there is no EU-wide policy on energy, so Germany going its route there is not exactly an unexpected snub of its euro partners (and on this topic, it's not even like Germany is isolated in Europe, with Italy and others having also suspended plans to go back to nuclear)


Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 07:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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