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Yes and no.

there are no international tariffs or supplier obligations, those are handled by governments and utilities, and it works. the capitalist spot markets don't work very well yet, at least by my standards, but Yurp will likely get dragged kicking and screaming to get them right at some point.

always interesting to compare the German feed-in model with the UK ROC scheme, a byzantine neo-lib mess. though there's discussion of even that changing.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Jun 23rd, 2011 at 05:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the capitalist spot markets don't work very well yet, at least by my standards, but Yurp will likely get dragged kicking and screaming to get them right at some point.

How should the "electricity market" work?

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 26th, 2011 at 04:03:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You should pay people for two different services, because they are delivering two different services: One service is providing power when they tell you they can provide power (with higher price for better ability to forecast). The other is providing power when you want power. In other words, you pay one sort of price for MW and another sort of price for MWh.

Of course the coal-burners are going to scream bloody murder over this, because they like being able to extract rent from the spot market while not running liquidity risk due to being fully amortised. But screw them.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 26th, 2011 at 04:08:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you mean payment for capacity, as distinct from payment for power?

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Jun 26th, 2011 at 11:06:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm meaning payment for dispatchable power as distinct from baseload power.

In practise, that means paying people for maintaining idle capacity. So in practise it means paying people for capacity.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jun 26th, 2011 at 11:55:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For stored power systems ~ and dammed hydro is stored power, its stored before conversion to electric power ~ paying for dispatchability is not precisely "idle capacity" ~ its capacity has both a total power stored dimension as well as a throughput dimension.

Quick dispatch from thermal power inside the power up cycle is spinning reserve, which loses ground to stored power with either increases in the cost of fuel or decreases in the cost per kWh storage capacity of stored power.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 28th, 2011 at 11:49:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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