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The 1930s were not only a decade of economic hardship, but of political violence.

This guy was not just an "anti-islam nationalist". He was an "anti-internationalist" nationalist. His enemy was not so much the external threat of Islam or what-not, but the internal threat of a political class committed to a liberal, open and inclusive state. That's why he targeted not just the sitting Social Democrat government, but the "breeding ground of future Labour leadership". With 80 dead, he may have actually succeeded in decimating the younger ranks of the Social Democratic Youth and this may have an impact in the leadership of the Social Democratic Youth in the next decade and the Labour party leadership further down the line.

Things are going to get really ugly because any crackdown is going to be criticised by business interests and their friendly press as illiberal and a danger to democracy. Meanwhile, in Europe as a whole the "centre-right" continues its march to hegemony and its destruction of the economic basis of prosperity while encouraging right-wing populism as an outlet for workers' discontent.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 05:14:37 AM EST
With 80 dead, he may have actually succeeded in decimating the younger ranks of the Social Democratic Youth and this may have an impact in the leadership of the Social Democratic Youth in the next decade and the Labour party leadership further down the line.

You underestimate the depth and professionalism of the SocDem party organisation. The casualties so far reported are not in and of themselves crippling - the real effect will depend on which lesson the survivors learn: Whether it galvanises them into an uncompromising destroy-the-right-wing-and-take-no-prisoners stance or it makes them want to heal-the-national-wounds. The former would be useful, the latter would kill the party stone dead.

Too early to say which way they'll jump just yet.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:11:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One could expect this horror to galvanize the Soc Dems.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:41:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One could expect it to galvanize the youth organization, but maybe Stoltenberg and the rest of the adults will go for healing the national wounds...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:51:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends on who they view as their enemy. As long as they view the parliamentary right wing in terms of genial collegiality, it will not galvanise them in any meaningful way. If they understand that this was a right-wing hit, not (just) a lunatic with a gun, they might actually be useful.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is all horrific and scary...especially when it happened in Norway (country rich and peaceful).Poor people...
But also I do not understand what political party has to do with 14 years old kids, let alone make camp and brain wash them at that early age. I remember eastern style socialism very well and how we all had to become members of "PIONEERS" at the age of 7.As one progressed in school he was pushed to join communist party. Kids have nothing to do with political parties.
Now does anyone have any other theory of what happened but one about lunatic doing this on his own or Islamists...?


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So I guess churches are okay organizing youth camps and boy scout groups but political parties aren't...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not know what to answer here...When kids gather around church it is mostly because their parents are pushing them...Are this kids there with their own free will or again parents have a role in it? Or  is it just convenient to party for free ( and being " corrupted" later pay with your political orientation)?
I am just sensitive when poor kids are pushed around because I lived trough "socialism" where we as kids had to adore dictator more than our mum. On the other hand I have even less sympathy for "young conservatives" especially because when you are young as they say : if you are not leftist then you do not have heart...( and when you are old and you are leftist you do not have brain, haha...that's what they say, not me...) As you all know I am kind of religious person but I never pushed my children to be religious...and I am not pushing my grandchild even if I take her to church sometimes to play with kids. I am political "animal" but also I wouldn't push my child to share same political views with me. All tho we can argue about politic...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:46:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It may not be that parents force children to attend church groups, necessarily. Often the strongest community group in an area is centered around the church. Where I was growing up, the only 'scout' band in my naighbourhood was run from the local parish church. I wasn't at all gregarious but my sister did join the scouts like many of her schoolmates. What tends to happen is that the less religiously oriented people end up leaving the group. Other strong communities are organised around unions, especially the Communist Union CCOO, and political parties. People in the organization form strong commnity bonds and organize events for groups of adults and their children, and later youth camps are a natural development. The only camp I even attended was organised by the regional government, but every community group likes to organize events both for group cohesion and as a fundraiser.

Indoctrination-oriented activities are much rarer, but they happen, though they are usually associated with more cult-like organizations. Mainstream organizations from the Catholic Church to the Communist trade unions don't actually feel the need to behave in a cult-like manner precisely because they are mainstream (whose existence is accepted by society at large, even by those who don't share its values or goals).

I do not know what to answer here...
Life is complicated...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 07:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This may be less what we might understand by "summer camp" (an Americanism immediately used by the media) and more a rally or meeting. If it had been a rock festival teenagers were camping out at, would we be calling it a "summer camp"? But I don't know how long it was meant to last - perhaps those who have access to Norwegian sources can enlighten us.

As for ideological camps in the summer, I went through a whole series, under family influence - organised by religious fundamentalists. The tendency of people who have lived in formerly Communist countries to prefer religion to politics seems to me mistaken. If you haven't tried it the other way round, don't knock it.

But of course, indoctrination whether religious or political is unacceptable.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 08:40:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I seem to remember that the camp was supposed to be something like a one week gathering of members of the youth wing of the socialist party. They would be learning about political organising and activism. The youth are reported to be between 14 and 20-something. I don't see why one would be worried about it being some kind of "indoctrination". These are politically active youth. 14 would be on the young end of political activism, but not overtly strange to me. I had friends while in school who joined the youth wings of various parties in Sweden at 15-16, for example. And at the time they seemed to have a genuine interest in politics. Why would we be concerned that young people show an interest in politics and would attend political meetings? Teenagers are hardly some kind of innocent kids incapable of holding opinions of their own. Some of the attendees would already be of voting age, and also capable of standing for election. Others only a few years away.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 09:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But also I do not understand what political party has to do with 14 years old kids, let alone make camp and brain wash them at that early age.

Ah, that's not quite an accurate impression. This sort of event is more of a "get together and party" thing than ideological schooling. The ideological schooling happens elsewhere.

Now does anyone have any other theory of what happened but one about lunatic doing this on his own or Islamists...?

Islamists is pretty conclusively ruled out at this stage. "A single lunatic" has been the right-wing modus operandi for assassinations since the last world war put an end to the traditional right-wing militia. So yes, I'd say that this is more than just a single lunatic, but everybody else involved has plausible deniability.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
peaceful

No.

Libia
Afganastan
Nato

see also Glenn Greenwald

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:39:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah...you are right...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 09:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
any crackdown is going to be criticised by business interests and their friendly press as illiberal and a danger to democracy

Given the shocking scale and horrifying circumstances, I think they'd have a hard time selling that line. Supposing "business interests" to be somehow favourable to leaving nutters of this kind free to commit mass murder.

Though there's some fancy footwork needed from those who at first lined up spontaneously with the stock analysis:

Why did the Norweigan attacks? - CBS News

(CBS News) 

The explosion in Norway's capital Oslo and a shooting on the island of Utoya that have left a total of at least 16 dead is puzzling because Norway is considered a peaceful country. It had prompted this question: "Why target Norway?" CBS News correspondent Bob Orr explains:

"Believe it or not, Norway has been on al Qaeda's hit list for agent about eight years now. Leader Ayman al-Zawahiri back in 2003 warned Norway would be targeting for supporting the U.S. War in Afghanistan. After a Norwegian newspaper reprinted cartoons of the prophet Mohammed in 2006, once again al Qaeda called for revenge.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:52:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're also going to see a lot of "lone nut" rationalisations of this. And that would be an angle from which to criticise a crackdown as an overreaction.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Remember That "Eurabian Civil War"?

If someone mentioned terrorism in Europe, you would probably have an idea about the size of the threat and who's responsible.

It's big, you would think. And growing. As for who's responsible, that's obvious. It's Muslims. Or if you're a little more careful with your language, it's radical Muslims, or "Islamists."

After all, they were at it again just in the past month. On Dec. 11, a 28- year-old naturalized Swede - originally from Iraq - injured two people when he blew himself up on the way to a shopping district. And on Dec. 29, police in Denmark said they thwarted a plan by five Muslims to storm the office of a Danish newspaper and kill as many people as possible.

So the danger is big and growing, and Islamists are the source. Right?

Wrong, actually.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:00:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Craig Murray » Blog Archive » Islamophobia Run Wild

I watched the disgraceful Islamophobic rantings on the BBC and Sky News last night in mounting disbelief. Security correspondent and security expert vied with each other to tell us that the dreadful attacks in Norway were the work of al-Qaida. One extraordinary American, introduced as from a Centre for Combating Extremism, explained that these Norwegian jihadists had international links and plans to attack London and the New York subway. Norway was a target, we were repeatedly told, because of its NATO membership.

There was at least six solid hours of this poisonous bullshit. I did not pick up on one single person who said that this probably was not Islamic terrorism - despite the glaringly obvious fact that the atrocity had a Norwegian domestic political agenda, being an attack on the Prime Minister's office, and on a youth camp of the governing party. The internet was buzzing for hours with the news that the attacker on Utoya Island was blonde, without the broadcast media mentioning it. The American security expert I mention above had that base covered - he had obviously seen those reports, but did not mention them. However he said that jihadist groups had probably recruited European looking operatives to carry out the attacks, because they were aware that security services "consciously or unconsciously operated racial profiling."



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:05:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is really sickening how USA media and "friends" are pushing for Islamists to blame...Poor Americans that have to endure all the shit they are presented. After all that happened last 10 years I hardly believe even what date is today when I see/hear it on TV...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:21:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well apparently CNN had an expert who after the police were saying that it was internal politics, explained how they were wrong

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:28:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Charlie Brooker (charltonbrooker) on Twitter
Just wrote a col for Monday Guardian about some of the Oslo coverage. May run online tmrw, maybe earlier.

John Bolton on Fox News earlier: anchor says looks like lone madman, not AQ as JB had speculated. He says let's not speculate till facts in.

To be fair to Fox, anchor was v clear it seems similar to Oklahoma tragedy; following bulletin also described suspect as rightwing extremist

Some ppl singling out Sky News unfairly I think: foreign ed T. Marshall tweeted v measured info last night: http://bit.ly/qbfayy

Whereas every channel seemed to have countless speculating security experts incorrectly guessing their gobs off.

Next angle will prob be impact of violent films & games etc. Not impact of negative depiction of Islam in news.

Not that I have any idea what caused it either. All very sad.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:37:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dan Gardner: Remember That "Eurabian Civil War"?
Oh, there are incidents. I cited two above. And for people like Steyn, that is more than enough. Tell a true story; treat it as typical; draw a scary conclusion: This is the standard operating procedure of alarmists.
When I imagine that the Utøya massacre is not an isolated incident, am I being alarmist?

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 25th, 2011 at 07:09:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a difference between claiming that something is "not an isolated incident" and claiming that it is commonplace. Nobody here is claiming that right-wing assassinations are commonplace, but nor are they isolated incidents. In the same way that Islamist bomb-throwing is not commonplace even though it cannot be separated from its ideological justifications either.

There is also the fact that alarmists like Steyn simply flat out lie about the ideological and social background for Islamist bomb-throwing.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jul 25th, 2011 at 07:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't really know the Norwegian media, but one might hope there's less craven crap than in the US, where McVeigh was the wrong colour to be labeled a terrorist. Or there was some other reason.

Though it'll be (sort of) interesting to see by what contorsions the American media twist out of calling this terrorism (after having called it such and supposed Al Qaeda involvement).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:08:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I hadn't read ceebs above before posting.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In order to get to the bottom of this horrific story it would be interested to know WHO supplied this guy with automatic weapon (it must be automatic if he killed and wounded so many people in such a short time) and of course who supplied him with a bomb so powerful? I assume it's not easy to buy all that stuff like in a corner shop...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:11:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He was on a small island. Full of kids. A semiautomatic pistol is actually more likely, since it lets him use his ammunitions more effectively.

I'm more interested in why the police held off on going to the island for so long. It should have been simplicity itself to requisition a helicopter full of terrorist police with automatic weapons and high powered scoped rifles.

But I expect that that part will be the subject of a detailed inquiry.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:20:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say there's probably a factor that the major factor probably is the big explosion, all of your heavy duty security police are probably rushed to Oslo to deal with bombs which probably seemed to be the bigger threat, whereas a shooting on an Island probably was seen as a distraction from the major problem for quite a while.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:32:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I continue to think the bomb was a deliberate and clever diversionary tactic by the shooter.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 06:17:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the Norwegian police single police helicopter was grounded because the crew was on holiday.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jul 27th, 2011 at 02:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to swedish news, he bought a semi-automatic gun for hunting after getting a gun license in accordance with the rules (joined a gun club, took the mandatory training classes etc).

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jul 27th, 2011 at 02:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brevik's obscene massacre is, I think, perhaps one of the most virulent symptoms yet of the effects of the Anglo Disease of neo-liberal globalism/internationalism in a developed and 'civilised' nation.

Norway historically is a nation of rugged frontier individualists but with the long tradition of solidarity/ 'Dugnad' necessary for survival in a hostile environment.

This society has - in the last 30 years - become thoroughly corrupted by the influx of alien values of neo-liberal politics of greed. This process has been turbocharged by the Curse of Oil and has led to the hopefully not yet irreversible spread of selfishness and materialism.

A relatively small elite has been an almost permanent fixture at the pinnacle of Norwegian Labour politics - such as Brundtland; the Stoltenbergs; and behind the scenes there have been key figures and 'eminences grise'.

Post-war the Labour party exemplified the spirit of solidarity that rebuilt the nation after the war. But Power corrupts over time, and Norwegian Labour has paralleled New Labour in the UK, whose policies they have studied and follow slavishly.

When the Norwegians voted twice, narrowly, against joining the EU, the elite essentially ignored this inconvenience by simply adopting EU directives and enforcing them more rigorously, within a context of EEA membership, than any EU member.

Brevik clearly blamed Brundtland in particular for this internationalism, and I would imagine he was aiming to kill her on Utøya had she not been fortunate enough to leave an hour before he arrived.

The neo-liberal assaults which followed - many of which flowed from following EU directives - on traditional property rights; and on common ownership of productive assets, have deeply divided Norway.

Creeping marketisation and exploitation has taken place of institutions as diverse as the 'for profit' enforcement industry in respect of court judgements, and an entire industry built around removing children from 'unfit' parents and fostering them at huge expense to the state, and immense private profit.  

This process has been exacerbated by the opening up of the borders through Schengen, which is one of the main drivers of the membership of the anti-immigrant populist Fremskritt party, whose members perceive themselves as being excluded from work by immigrants. Brevik was apparently a prominent member of the Fremskritt party's youth movement.

This tragedy creates a watershed or cross-roads moment for Norwegian society.

Hopefully, they will draw the right lessons from this appalling crime and address the cause, rather than this gruesome symptom, of the Anglo Disease in Norway.


"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:52:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Norway has its own tradition of right wing extremism that has nothing to do with the Anglo disease.
by rootless2 on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 11:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Every nation has somewhere around 25% of their population classifiable as politically psychotic, meaning "not emotionally and cognitively attached to reality" often delusional, a belief that is either mistaken or not substantiated and is held with very strong feelings or opinions and expressed forcefully, possibly hysterical, unmanaged emotional responses, often leading to moral panic, high intensity of feeling about an issue that appears to threaten the social order and concretized in a group who is perceived as the threat to the established social order.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 02:38:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
False consciousness.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 05:48:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This attack is no good turn for world peace and sane politics and economics. Norway, of all places...

The most certain outcome of this event for the left politics is fear. The left is already marginalized and betrayed by own elites in most countries. They can't buy a confidence boost in this century. Whatever revival scenarios were in cards, the area of passive fear - of loosing your job, house, friends, and now perhaps your own life - has just expanded. Whatever "global awakenings" you may hear about, you don't see any mass pressure on rather coherent crashing events (unlike the 1960s), just a passive observation. Did totalitarian manipulation experts dream of anything better?

Even if there will be an expectable crackdown, with these governments you will never know what they would be actually doing. Thanks for extra "emergency" powers, no watch this... A compartmentalized control of global politics, economics through shock events is not only feasible, it should be now a serious consideration.

Don't laugh, but I checked a few "truth" sites:

Oslo Police Conducted Bombing Exercise Days Before Terrorist Blast

Obama Reaction To Norway Massacre Betrays US "War on Terror" Fundamentalism

I don't believe that "the" global conspiracy is that awesome as, say, David Icke describes. That type of conspiracy actually needs to inflate its awesomeness with "leaking" stories to leave a few options to those "getting it". Let's see: the mass media is evidently consolidated and routinely manipulated; much of alternative information sources do not leave much potential for rational analysis; more and more commentary and decisions are based on fear, unknown factors. It goes only one way since some time, and no slowdown or turn around in sight.

by das monde on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:30:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The most certain outcome of this event for the left politics is fear.

The left still doesn't know what hit it. But, to be honest, the left's base has become "bourgeois" - the post-WWII prosperity has given them (us...) a lot to loose and a middle class ethos even when they're still just hiring their labour out rather than owning their own business. And, of course, the trend towards transforming full-time employment with self-employment with a single client just reinforces that political shift.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 06:30:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ask a comedian:

That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the fucking money! Fairly simple thing! Happens to work! You know? Anything different! That's what they're gonna talk about race, religion, ethnic and national background, jobs, income, education, social status, sexuality, anything can do, keep us fighting with each other, so that they can keep going to the bank!

You know how I define the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there... just to scare the shit out of the middle class. Keep 'em showing up at those jobs.
by das monde on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 11:54:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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