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This is all horrific and scary...especially when it happened in Norway (country rich and peaceful).Poor people...
But also I do not understand what political party has to do with 14 years old kids, let alone make camp and brain wash them at that early age. I remember eastern style socialism very well and how we all had to become members of "PIONEERS" at the age of 7.As one progressed in school he was pushed to join communist party. Kids have nothing to do with political parties.
Now does anyone have any other theory of what happened but one about lunatic doing this on his own or Islamists...?


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So I guess churches are okay organizing youth camps and boy scout groups but political parties aren't...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:56:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not know what to answer here...When kids gather around church it is mostly because their parents are pushing them...Are this kids there with their own free will or again parents have a role in it? Or  is it just convenient to party for free ( and being " corrupted" later pay with your political orientation)?
I am just sensitive when poor kids are pushed around because I lived trough "socialism" where we as kids had to adore dictator more than our mum. On the other hand I have even less sympathy for "young conservatives" especially because when you are young as they say : if you are not leftist then you do not have heart...( and when you are old and you are leftist you do not have brain, haha...that's what they say, not me...) As you all know I am kind of religious person but I never pushed my children to be religious...and I am not pushing my grandchild even if I take her to church sometimes to play with kids. I am political "animal" but also I wouldn't push my child to share same political views with me. All tho we can argue about politic...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:46:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It may not be that parents force children to attend church groups, necessarily. Often the strongest community group in an area is centered around the church. Where I was growing up, the only 'scout' band in my naighbourhood was run from the local parish church. I wasn't at all gregarious but my sister did join the scouts like many of her schoolmates. What tends to happen is that the less religiously oriented people end up leaving the group. Other strong communities are organised around unions, especially the Communist Union CCOO, and political parties. People in the organization form strong commnity bonds and organize events for groups of adults and their children, and later youth camps are a natural development. The only camp I even attended was organised by the regional government, but every community group likes to organize events both for group cohesion and as a fundraiser.

Indoctrination-oriented activities are much rarer, but they happen, though they are usually associated with more cult-like organizations. Mainstream organizations from the Catholic Church to the Communist trade unions don't actually feel the need to behave in a cult-like manner precisely because they are mainstream (whose existence is accepted by society at large, even by those who don't share its values or goals).

I do not know what to answer here...
Life is complicated...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 07:00:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This may be less what we might understand by "summer camp" (an Americanism immediately used by the media) and more a rally or meeting. If it had been a rock festival teenagers were camping out at, would we be calling it a "summer camp"? But I don't know how long it was meant to last - perhaps those who have access to Norwegian sources can enlighten us.

As for ideological camps in the summer, I went through a whole series, under family influence - organised by religious fundamentalists. The tendency of people who have lived in formerly Communist countries to prefer religion to politics seems to me mistaken. If you haven't tried it the other way round, don't knock it.

But of course, indoctrination whether religious or political is unacceptable.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 08:40:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I seem to remember that the camp was supposed to be something like a one week gathering of members of the youth wing of the socialist party. They would be learning about political organising and activism. The youth are reported to be between 14 and 20-something. I don't see why one would be worried about it being some kind of "indoctrination". These are politically active youth. 14 would be on the young end of political activism, but not overtly strange to me. I had friends while in school who joined the youth wings of various parties in Sweden at 15-16, for example. And at the time they seemed to have a genuine interest in politics. Why would we be concerned that young people show an interest in politics and would attend political meetings? Teenagers are hardly some kind of innocent kids incapable of holding opinions of their own. Some of the attendees would already be of voting age, and also capable of standing for election. Others only a few years away.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Sun Jul 24th, 2011 at 09:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But also I do not understand what political party has to do with 14 years old kids, let alone make camp and brain wash them at that early age.

Ah, that's not quite an accurate impression. This sort of event is more of a "get together and party" thing than ideological schooling. The ideological schooling happens elsewhere.

Now does anyone have any other theory of what happened but one about lunatic doing this on his own or Islamists...?

Islamists is pretty conclusively ruled out at this stage. "A single lunatic" has been the right-wing modus operandi for assassinations since the last world war put an end to the traditional right-wing militia. So yes, I'd say that this is more than just a single lunatic, but everybody else involved has plausible deniability.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 07:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
peaceful

No.

Libia
Afganastan
Nato

see also Glenn Greenwald

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 08:39:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah...you are right...


Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sat Jul 23rd, 2011 at 09:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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