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Tuesday Open Thread | 53 comments (53 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)
Installing a wind turbine at sea

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 01:20:46 PM EST
Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
three steps to building a wind farm

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 01:23:29 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
Who is Dieter Helm, some bloke who claims;-

Professor Dieter Helm, an economist from the University of Oxford, told the BBC he doubted a large expansion in offshore wind power was affordable. He said: "Offshore wind is one of the very few things that makes nuclear power look cheap."


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 01:30:23 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
beat me to it, was just coming on here to ask the same

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 01:31:20 PM EST
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"...makes nuclear power look cheap" (4.00 / 7)
Yeah, cleaning up after those dangerous wind spills and turbine meltdowns are costly.
by Magnifico on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 01:35:13 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)
Dieter Helm shills for energy liberalisation, and against renwables - even against biofuels, where he might be right.

See 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 02:22:29 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
Should have guessed really

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 02:29:53 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
Especially as you've already had a go at him.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 03:57:15 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
The exclusion zone from a worst case accident in onshore wind can be measured in meters/hour over a day or two.

For offshore, worst case would be whatever the ship was carrying which foundered into the array.

He does have half a point about the economics, but we already have a track record of lowering prices significantly as the technology matures, unlike...

Though, while there have been no documented cases yet, we are all afraid that one of the offshore turbines will get jealous of the one-horned goats the onshore turbines get to eat, and will spring his mooring and run to shore, hungrily sweeping civilization aside in his quest to eat and destroy.

I'm certain the producers of Godzilla would green-light this.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 04:24:49 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)
"Great" discussion with my sister today where she brought up the intolerable noise of windfarms.

I wasn't overtly sarcastic but I did mention railways and roads and aircraft

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 04:31:56 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)
I always ask the person how many hundred hours they've been within 500 meters of operating wind parks, in how many different wind conditions. Or if they've just read something in the press.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 04:37:47 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 09:06:32 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
one of the fishiest part of nukes is their building cost over-runs which are risibly astronomical (not to mention the cleanup costs, waster storage and babysitting costs, health costs, security costs etc etc).

how is windfarm history, regarding buildcost over-runs?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 17th, 2011 at 06:04:18 AM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)
Though there are exceptions, most cost over-runs are less than 5% of pro forma build. More importantly, since the industry is so mature, contracts tend to stipulate costs.

The biggest problem with onshore was not cost over-runs, but production over-estimation. No longer a problem in mature markets because the wind is so well known, it can still be a ringer in emerging markets. Earlier it could be as much as 20% low, averaging 10%. Now, close to spot on.

Offshore is too young not to have cost over-runs, but that too is changing.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Wed Aug 17th, 2011 at 01:57:01 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
thanks CH. this should be touted more, methinks.

dealing with people of business acumen, though of course financially motivated, also have future generations' well-being under consideration, is also more likely to be managed by people whose word the people can trust.

pushing the nuke industries' mendaciousness hasn't worked that well... maybe it's time to accentuate the positive!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 17th, 2011 at 04:33:06 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)
Some people will say/do anything for the proper payment. They're called whores ... old profession; nothing new.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 03:48:37 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 7)
Hope you all enjoyed the various embedded videos. Pretty rare that the BBC was given such video access. It's not an easy climb, though most take the lift (as for sure the camearman did with his equipment.)

The REpower turbines at the Ormond site (in the video) are older 5MW machines (though just now commissioned), but one gets a good sense of where the technology is going. The 5M has a standard power train, with a gearbox. They are the same turbines which have been used in previous projects financed by the ET founder.

Of course, i most enjoyed the interview with the engineer, describing the work and the provisions for three days if you get stuck out there.

Danke for posting, Helen.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 04:00:15 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
Clearly, that three-day inventory is unnecessary and reduces the return on investment of the park. Lean it away!

After all, we don't plan to camp out on the turbine, do we?

</MBA>

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 04:11:44 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
Forgot to add that the "jacket" foundations he refers to are designed to lessen the faults and costs of monopile foundations traditional for earlier (and smaller) offshore projects.

Depending on the subsea soil/rock configuration and the turbine weight and type (and harmonics), there are currently several optimal foundation designs, with more coming.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 04:35:58 PM EST
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Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)
wind turbine makers aren't cracking open the champagne just yet

Thought you should see one of the thousand details. She's marking surface irregularities. Degrades performance of the airfoil, resulting in less Megawatt hours. Will be retouched before shipping.

That's an onshore blade, 43+ meters. The article itself doesn't even come close. We're in a high-risk period, though signs do show improvement.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 16th, 2011 at 06:14:02 PM EST
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Tuesday Open Thread | 53 comments (53 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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