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Migeru:
as far removed from the conscious layer as human consciousness is removed from neural activity

how far is that? in mm? or is 'far' metaphorical? who or what presupposes any distance between our consciousness and neural activity, can they not be coterminous, even fused?

i guess if one has morphine in the system, that affects the way consciousness perceives nerve signals, though i'm told that it doesn't remove the pain per se, it rather causes the pain not to be worth caring about... presumably by flooding the brain with enough pleasure chemicals that the pain signals come in a distant second.

wouldn't it vary between individuals, just like pain thresholds do?

i guess 'anhedonia', an inability to feel pleasure in life could be seen as seen as a metaphorical distance between consciousness and the neural circuits, though how well the signals travel and are received within those circuits might vary a lot between different folks, or even between different times! for example when firewalkers walk barefoot over coals after psyching themselves up with group exercises, then they go home, can they stick their fingers in even a candle flame and still feel no pain or burning, without all the hoo-rah of the group pumping them into an altered state? i never heard of that happening, although to my mind that would actually be more interesting than firewalking, though that is interesting enough.

what's happening between consciousness and neural circuits when a hypnotist has a subject believe he's being burned, and his skin blisters and he feels the heat? is that heat 'real'?

perhaps mystical experience is when consciousness briefly syncs perfectly, though fleetingly, with one's neural circuits...

this neuroscience is cutting edge stuff, and yet has been around since recorded time, and makes our fascination with computers seem a novelty.

ancient animists ascribed mind to matter, even a rock has a spirit/vibration, just a very slow moving one compared to flowing water or a flower blooming. perhaps in our search to duplicate and mechanise consciousness we are actually missing what's right under our own noses, namely this supposed grail is a bagatelle, and computers will never have common sense.* they're data bankers, not delphic oracles!

*whatever that may be agreed to be... we can make simulacra till the cows come home, but ultimately a world ruled by computer logic seems like it would more likely be dystopian than otherwise.

to a geologist, rocks have 'memories', as the code embedded in the structure is readable to their trained minds.

Data Storage Rock Ready to Roll - EnterpriseStorageForum.com

Millenniata has unveiled its new storage technology that lets users etch data on an optical disc made from a stone-like substance that never degrades, reports Small Business Computing.

melo:

New tech uses silicon glass for data storage

Recently we heard about the M-DISC, which can reportedly store data in a rock-like medium for up to 1,000 years. Now, scientists from the University of Southampton have announced the development of a new type of nanostructured glass technology. Not only might it have applications in fields such as microscopy, but it apparently also has the ability to optically store data forever.

mind into matter, not matter over mind!

going back to the why we are so desirous of breathing life into a golem anyway... could it be that some are so spooked by the strong streaks of irrationality in the human psyche, and so tired of psycho tyrants bending others' wills, that to succeed in imbuing our better instincts into somewhere fixed, concrete and external (dryware?), we will finally, unarguably create that font of wisdom that we can fully trust as objective, ex cyber-cathedra, to tell us when probability decreed our choices/actions would lead to perdition, infallibility incarnate, but with no carne, none of that messy human cell breakdown to worry about, we will supposedly glory in our role bearing pure knowledge and infusing it into permanence.

'cept it won't be a font, it'd always be a reservoir, big difference...

uh huh.... isn't this about taking the long way round to get home where we always were, via a cul de sac to boot?

 we are real, computers are fiction. and yes in a good story the plot does run away with the characters occasionally, deus IN machina.

this is what happens when linear thinking runs amok IOW, methinks, and will go into history as an endearing odd footnote, like man's quixotic quest for Cities of Gold in the jungle, or Springs that offer the Water of Life, a fantasy Elixir of Summum Bonum.

we want off this wheel of change, basically... (instead of trying to figure out/embrace how to make it roll better). the search for absolute AI has a thanatic, death-worshipping aspect or streak to it. as do all linear projections that are fear based, 'we're not enough, we're not whole, we need a HAL to guide us to find our own asses!'

the cracks in our consciousness are where the light shines in, in this ultimately pointless exercise we are trying to seal them closed. it reminds me of those billionaire bunkers where the guy has his bugout system in place, sealing himself and his money into an impregnable vault only openable from the inside.

bliss of safety! there's no refuge from change. we can always keep upgrading the computer till it learns to do it itself, heck till it even extrudes a robot to go mine the earths it needs to self replicate, but there will always be something that we are made with which will not totally compute, and i don't think most of us would want it any other way.

mental rubber doll porn...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Aug 27th, 2011 at 02:25:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
as far removed from the conscious layer as human consciousness is removed from neural activity
how far is that? in mm? or is 'far' metaphorical? who or what presupposes any distance between our consciousness and neural activity, can they not be coterminous, even fused?
Who said "presupposes"? And, yes, "far" is metaphorical as in "the fundamental processes of human thought are inaccessible to consciousness"
philosophers have made certain fundamental assumptions--that we can know our own minds by introspection, that most of our thinking about the world is literal, and that reason is disembodied and universal--that are now called into question by well-established results of cognitive science. It has been shown empirically that:Most thought is unconscious. We have no direct conscious access to the mechanisms of thought and language. Our ideas go by too quickly and at too deep a level for us to observe them in any simple way.Abstract concepts are mostly metaphorical.


Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Aug 27th, 2011 at 03:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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