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And ponies.

And just any old ponies ... Magic ponies.  With horns on their heads.

That dumb cluck ought to understand the EU and euro stand or fall together.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 03:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 03:54:34 PM EST
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Then you'd better get cracking on a Nordic Federation and a common Kron/a/e/er/-markka.  (Assuming Finland wants to play, and I'd bet they would.)  


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 04:19:33 PM EST
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That's not a million miles away from Henkel's proposal. I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden and Denmark's opposition to joining the Neuro would be a lot less than to joining the current Euro which is unfortunately choke-full of swarthy, lazy Mediterraneans.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 04:52:08 PM EST
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Ha, if anything symbolizes the continent up here, it is the Germans. And they are a bit swarthy too.

I would say the main reason the referendum ended with a no in Sweden was a general dissatisfaction with the results of joining the EU. A project with the Nordic neighbours (not Germany) would have higher approval.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 05:29:27 PM EST
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A swedish kind of death:
they are a bit swarthy too

Everyone in the Northern Hemisphere has a southern neighbour who is dark-complexioned, shifty, and feckless.

Ask Santa Claus.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 2nd, 2011 at 03:22:34 AM EST
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afew:
Everyone in the Northern Hemisphere has a southern neighbour who is dark-complexioned, shifty, and feckless.

it's fractal...within england it's the same. (without the complexion part). southerners are seen as flyboys, definitely shifty, and in italy it's even worse.

seems the closer to the equator you are, the less moral fibre... there may be a grain of truth there if you're talking about civic responsibility (of a technocratic nature) and competent planning, but it's equalled out by a complementary imbalance in emotional intelligence and playfulness methinks.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 7th, 2011 at 07:49:13 AM EST
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A "Baltic Union" would include Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Germany as well.  I don't see that happening if the EU goes poof.

Sweden's objection to joining the euro are:

A poll published in the newspaper Dagens Industri revealed that 61 percent of those questioned opposed membership of the eurozone, with only 25 percent in favour and 14 percent having no opinion.

The poll, carried out between May 27 and June 1 by the institute Novus Opinion, disclosed a sharp turnarond in public sentiment in the past year.

Results of the latest questionaire showed that the krona is seen as shielding the Swedish economy in a time of global economic crisis.

Thirty-five percent of the respondents believed that the euro would have put Sweden at a disadvantage in the worldwide meltdown that began in late 2008, against 21 percent who said the single currency would have been beneficial.

 

Given the mess the ECB has made of things, I think they have a point.  

Re: current Euro which is unfortunately choke-full of swarthy, lazy Mediterraneans

The only country in the eurozone is Finland.  The rest took a look and said, "Thanks, no thanks" before the recent crack-up.  And one reason they skipped the chance was the anti-euro campaign from the Left that said the euro was going to run a'cropper for the very reasons it is running a'cropper.  

Scandinavia is NOT the source of the Mediterranean country's problems.  I couldn't find figures for Spain but for Greece debt exposure is:

Denmark €92 million
Finland €21 million
Sweden €57 million

Now compare:

Germany €7,902 million
France €9,362 million

(I assume [Correction Requested!] the figures are similar for Spain, Portugal, and Italy.)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 07:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Baltic union: There will be a Baltic union even if the EU blows up. The Baltic Rim wants such a union because they are scared of the Large Neighbour to the East, and Germany wants one to consolidate its sphere of interest in the East. You will notice that for all the German whining about giving money to Southern Europe, nobody is commenting on the ongoing meltdown in East.

Re: Scandinavian exposure to Mediterranean debts: That's correct. The Scandinavian exposure is to Baltic debts. Which are not that much better, but much less talked about.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 03:16:36 AM EST
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The Baltics are small, but so are the Scandinavians. So, in relative terms, it might be a big problem.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 04:12:42 AM EST
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Greece and Ireland are also small. That did not prevent Deutche and SG from becoming insolvent due to exposure to them.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 04:49:26 AM EST
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A Baltic Union without Russia brings-up all kinds of problems.  They are already touchy about Kaliningrad and St. Petersburg and if there is anything a Baltic Union doesn't want is to up Russian paranoia.

Do you have the figures for Sweden, Finland, et. al., debt exposure to the southern Baltic countries at hand?


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 12:07:54 PM EST
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I can't see why it should cause issues with Russia - all these countries are already in the EU, so a Baltic cooperation under the EU umbrella cannot reasonably be viewed as a provocation.

And no, my feeling about bank exposures is based on anecdata from ET coverage of the Estonian crisis and the role of major Swedish banks.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 04:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No figures, but it is well known that Swedish banks gambled large in the Baltics and Borg - minister of finance - has said something about the public not knowning how close we were to a banking crisis. I at least read that as an admission that Latvia is suffering under IMF rule to make sure Swedish banks do not collapse.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Sep 2nd, 2011 at 02:52:08 PM EST
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I don't think it's possible to find a single Swede (outside the disconnected political elites) who wants to join the euro.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Thu Sep 8th, 2011 at 08:10:26 PM EST
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Public polling in Sweden gives, at most, 35% in favor.  


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Thu Sep 8th, 2011 at 09:29:39 PM EST
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Funny thing: The krona was a 19th century currency union. That is the coins was made in the same denominations with the same amount of precious metal.

If I remember coorectly, it broke down under world war one when the gold standard could not be maintained.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 05:32:29 PM EST
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You remember correctly.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 05:39:39 PM EST
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The one accomplishment of 19th century Scandinavianism.  Although it happened after the enthusiasm had died away.

So much for the idea of a currency union leading to an ever-closer political union, huh?

 

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Wed Aug 31st, 2011 at 06:23:03 PM EST
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See also Latin monetary union...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 04:16:28 AM EST
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Thanks.  Didn't know about that one.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 12:09:07 PM EST
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See also the Zollverein.

Though of course under the gold standard currency unions were symbolic expressions of spheres of interest rather than actual political commitments. Which is why they all went tits-up when the gold standard collapsed and maintaining a currency union would have required real political commitment.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Sep 1st, 2011 at 04:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one around here want any unions at all. Well, except possibly with the Finns and the Norwegians (and the Danes), but only because it would make us feel like the Swedish empire was back. Which is exactly why the Finns and Norwegians don't want to be in any kind of unions with pompous big brother Sweden.

I think what this crisis has told us (among other things) is: floating currencies? What a great idea!

Before anyone gets any ideas about future currency unions, we'll need a massive focus on things such as optimal currency areas...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Thu Sep 8th, 2011 at 08:17:23 PM EST
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I don't know about "union," per se, but the idea of a Nordic Federation has a bit of support.  Concede that percentage would drop - like a rock? - once serious discussions were started.
 

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Thu Sep 8th, 2011 at 09:37:23 PM EST
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I'm sure Eastern Sweden (aka "Finland") and Western Sweden (aka "Norway") could be talked around.  Not so sure about Southern Sweden (aka Denmark.)  

:-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Thu Sep 8th, 2011 at 09:39:22 PM EST
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Just call it the Kalmar union and you should have a sporting chance of roping in Denmark ;-P

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 9th, 2011 at 04:50:48 AM EST
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Number One in a series.

(Where is Magaret when you need her?  :-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 9th, 2011 at 11:51:19 AM EST
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