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As if you are trying to set up some poor ET editor to be attacked from all sides.

Nap...but I do see that there is a line (and it's only normal) when some commentators here are marked as trolls if they do not feet editorial views. Maybe it's just because "trolls" do not present their views in a manner accepted by editorial elite. I don't know. ET (or any other forum) is not without position, no matter how different views we discussants may present. I was interested to know more about that position.
The trick, therefore, is to replace war, as much as possible, by more peaceful diplomatic, political, negotiated and democratic methods.

You mean like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpXbA6yZY-8
There is an increasing body of international law and institutions to promote and sometimes enforce it.

UN is useless puppet in USA hands and I applauded Russia and China that they do not want to participate in this charade anymore and are just not showing for the sessions. No use of words there anymore...
International criminal court is even worse...it is an instrument for USA/NATO to use at their will and with USA excluding itself long time ago it's just a side show that is becoming sickening...
But as a Government leader you have to have  very good reason to put your treasury and soldiers at risk - and unavoidably self-interest is a large part of it.
 

Hah, c'mon, like they care to even ask anybody when they go to war.
4. Do not tolerate presidents who violate our Constitution and start wars without congressional deliberation and a declaration of war (article 1, section 8, clause 11). Do not let them disobey federal statutes and international treaties in pursuing unlawful, misdirected quicksand wars, as in Iraq, that produce deaths, destruction and debts that undermine our country's national interests.

Did Sarco or Berlusconi ask parliaments before they engaged your countries in war in Libya?

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Fri Sep 2nd, 2011 at 08:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
vbo:
when some commentators here are marked as trolls if they do not feet editorial views

You are simply providing support for Frank's suggestion that you're out to attack editors. Firstly, anyone can downrate, not just editors. Secondly, ET has a good record of avoiding downrating on the basis of disagreement on ideas. If you can show a single example of editors using their "powers" against a poster simply on the basis of a differing opinion, bring it on.

And no, on ET there is no editorial "position".

Not that you will take any notice of what I'm saying.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 03:35:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ET (or any other forum) is not without position

But that is not the contention. Obviously, the European Tribune community has a conventional wisdom, and obviously that does influence editorial decisions. If nothing else then because consistently ruling against the strongly held views of significant contributors may prompt those contributors to go elsewhere and take their contributions with them.

This does not mean that there is an editorial line, or even that the conventional wisdom of the community can be articulated concisely. It does mean that if you are operating outside the conventional wisdom of the community, the site will be less tolerant of actionable behaviour than if you are operating within the conventional wisdom (pro-Palestinian spammers and astroturfers will have a longer shelf life than pro-Apartheid ones, for instance). Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing I do not pretend to know, but it is the reality of things.

Did Sarco or Berlusconi ask parliaments before they engaged your countries in war in Libya?

I believe Sarko did. France does not yet have an enabling act or a Führerprinzip "unitary executive." In Corruptioni's case it makes little matter, because the Italian parliament is almost as corrupt as he is.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 04:48:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:

vbo:

Did Sarco or Berlusconi ask parliaments before they engaged your countries in war in Libya?

I believe Sarko did. France does not yet have an enabling act or a Führerprinzip "unitary executive."

Not before, it actually happened 3 days after the military operations started: a parliamentary debate took place on March 22 without a vote. This is all allowed by the article 35, clause 2, of the 1958 constitution put together by de Gaulle:

Legifrance - La Constitution du 4 Octobre 1958 Legifrance - October 1958 Constitution
Le Gouvernement informe le Parlement de sa décision de faire intervenir les forces armées à l'étranger, au plus tard trois jours après le début de l'intervention. Il précise les objectifs poursuivis. Cette information peut donner lieu à un débat qui n'est suivi d'aucun vote.The Government informs the Parliament of its decision to engage the armed forces abroad, three days after the beginning of the operations, at the latest. It must precise the objectives pursued. This information session may be followed by a debate that will not lead to a vote.

So the answer to vbo's question is 'no' regarding France; and this is all legit, thanks to de Gaulle and his successors who didn't see fit to renounce this 'presidential' prerogative.

by Bernard on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 04:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Every group or community has - as Jake has suggested - its received wisdom or norms and some who are more central to that wisdom than others. I have, in the past, felt that some moderator interventions could have been handled better, but haven't come across any instances in more recent times - perhaps because I don't frequent open threads. Some good people have left because they felt unfairly treated but perhaps that is unavoidable. ET doesn't have, and doesn't seek, a monopoly on good discourse.

In general, however, I think the standard of discussion and courtesy on ET is outstandingly good - and getting better - and can have no complaints about my own treatment despite the fact that I often post views that are not necessarily widely shared here.

Please note that neither Jake nor myself are editors so we have no particular axe to grind in this regard.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 07:47:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please note that neither Jake nor myself are editors so we have no particular axe to grind in this regard.

That conclusion does not follow from the premise ;-)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 08:01:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh I have loads of axes to grind, but none as an editor of ET...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 04:16:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Observe he wrote, "no particular axes to grind in this regard."

Which means he (and you supposedly) DO have axes to grind in SOME OTHER regard.  And he is suspiciously quiet about his agenda regarding grinding axes in general.

All in all, one can only conclude he is a slippery customer, needing watching.

:-)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 04:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, it doesn't follow either that he has axes to grind. "No axes to grind in this regard" is a subset of "no axes to grind in general."

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 05:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right, but a sub-set does not distribute over the whole set.  It's like saying: out of the Set of Real Numbers I'm only going to use the Rationals, at this time.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sat Sep 3rd, 2011 at 11:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It always pays to keep an eye on an axe grinder, particularly if you can't see the axe...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Sep 4th, 2011 at 12:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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