UK Wind Power "Debate" : Latest | 71 comments (71 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: So in theory (none / 1)

Mostly in winter? In that case it wouldn't seem to be a good fit for longer-term smoothing: dams already full I suppose.

See page 29:

http://webby.nve.no/publikasjoner/rapport/2012/rapport2012_19.pdf

Actually winter/spring seems OK for sending electricity over there.

by mustakissa on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 10:45:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So in theory (none / 0)

Actually, looking at the amount of water (which they conveniently measure in gWH per week!) which the dams absorb in May and June (graph page 28), I guess that means that they can be used for soaking up any amount of excess wind -- through production and/or reverse pumping -- for ten months of the year!

And as the graph on page 29 shows, they never get more than 90% full...

A gold mine.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:10:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So in theory (none / 0)

It should be noted that under the current system for organizing international electricity trade, a gold mine is exactly what this is - Denmark does exactly what is proposed here already, and while the net trade in kwh sums to near zero, the net trade in kroner favors the storage vendors. A lot.

.. Which actually causes me a good deal of puzzlement. Selling timeshifting is currently a heck of a lot more profitable than selling intermittent electricity is, yet investment in intermittent generation capacity appears to be running ahead of investment in grid and storage quite badly.

by Thomas on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:31:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So in theory (none / 1)

It should be noted that under the current system for organizing international electricity trade, a gold mine is exactly what this is - Denmark does exactly what is proposed here already, and while the net trade in kwh sums to near zero, the net trade in kroner favors the storage vendors. A lot.

It should. They're taking lower-quality electricity and selling higher-quality electricity.

Selling timeshifting is currently a heck of a lot more profitable than selling intermittent electricity is,

That's not obvious from your example: Since there's no net trade in MWh in that example, you can't get a relative price from it.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:26:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So in theory (none / 0)

You can, if you buy at a lower price and sell at a higher price. But indeed I'd like figures on that.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 03:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So in theory (none / 1)

Thomas wrote:

the net trade in kroner favors the storage vendors. A lot.

And there's typically a profit-sharing arrangement in place between both nations

investment in intermittent generation capacity appears to be running ahead of investment in grid and storage quite badly

Errrm, no. Investment in grid storage was there decades before the investment in wind and solar.

by LondonAnalytics (Andrew Smith) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 01:42:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So in theory (4.00 / 2)

eurogreen:

And as the graph on page 29 shows, they never get more than 90% full...

That might be a safety feature. Since inflow from rain is not safely predictable on a longer time frame then about a week it might be prudent to keep some space clear for controlling downstreams conditions. Spilling water at times of massive rain is simple enough for the dam operator but has more externalities then spilling wind.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 10:02:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

UK Wind Power "Debate" : Latest | 71 comments (71 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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