Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Well not all children feel this way vbo. I remember once asking my father, in all earnest, if he couldn't just get rid of the mommy we had and get us a new one. He replied gently, but firmly, that no that wasn't going to happen. Shortly thereafter, my life spun out of control. So there's another perspective for you.
by sgr2 on Mon Nov 5th, 2012 at 01:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not know your circumstances and as I said I am not putting everyone in the same basket. Maybe your life was better after divorce. Truth is that hectic situation in one dysfunctional family will do the damage equal as divorce if it continues for prolonged period, for child. So in these cases it is a choice between two bad situations. Children do need peace in their lives but they usually do not get it after divorce...    
by vbo on Mon Nov 5th, 2012 at 07:53:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Children do need peace in their lives but they usually do not get it after divorce...

Again, what do you base this claim on, other than church propaganda? And more to the point, what makes you think that a child that doesn't get peace in his/her life after divorce would have gotten it in a continued broken marriage?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 01:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. And is a 'natural' childlike desire for homeostasis the best learning situation for future survival?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 01:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess we need to rewrite the fairy tales.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or is homeostasis imposed by the parents and thus essentially totalitarian? :-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the best learning situations for future survival is spending time in solitary confinement. But I wouldn't recommend it for everybody.
by sgr2 on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 01:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh stop it with "church" stuff. I am hardly that religious to even know and be interested in church dogma...I explained this before about my religious feelings and church as institution . It has nothing to do with church or otherwise I would be against de facto relationships which I am not.
I base my claims on my experience and observation of the world around me.
by vbo on Thu Nov 8th, 2012 at 10:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As others have said, children are resilient. They are adaptable and can thrive under the most adverse of circumstances. Whether it's one parent, two parents, adoptive parents, step-parents, gay parents, whatever, what children need most is unconditional love.

And BTW to clarify, my parents never did divorce. Their marriage was solid as a rock. It was only me the child that was miserable. When  I commented that as a child I had ask my father if he couldn't get me another mother because I didn't like the one I had, it was because I was exasperated by my mother's constant raging. Had someone explained to me that she she couldn't control her actions because of some type of mental illness she suffered from, I most likely wouldn't have spent so many years blaming her, nor would I chosen to rebel. I think my rebellion resulted from a combination of feeling unwanted by my mother and a total lack of understanding of her condition.

So yes, I agree with you that life is complicated and divorce is not always the answer. OTOH if the parents can't get along for whatever reason, it's much better for them to split and get on with their lives rather than making life miserable for the children.

by sgr2 on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 04:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I understand.
What you do not understand is that not only that there are not guaranties that child will not be miserable after parents divorce and " get on with their lives" but just opposite...in most cases it means that they will be even more miserable. At the time of my childhood divorce was rear thing (at least in Serbia but also elsewhere at least to some point). Those mums who divorced would rarely even introduce another man in to their children's lives let alone remarry in fear that it will  damage their children.Now it's not the case.Chances are that today children will face multiple partners of BOTH their parents being introduced to them.I remember I read somewhere how one girl said that after the divorce , the thing that had most negative impact on her was just this...mum introducing multiple partners. She lived with mum. It is usually convenient for dads that their children usually live with mums ( all tho this is changing too)so they did not have to show all their partners to kids and they look better in the eyes of kids.  
by vbo on Thu Nov 8th, 2012 at 10:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The more people one has an opportunity to meet, the broader their horizons can become. I would think this would be true for children too. So I really don't see your point.
by sgr2 on Fri Nov 9th, 2012 at 05:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are sooo wrong on this one.Sooo wrong when it comes to children. As for mum I believe it's also not the case because failing in more relationships/de facto relationships just give more pain...
This is not about "meeting" people and broadening horizons ( it is tru when it comes to friends)...these are sexual relationships that affect children hard...
by vbo on Fri Nov 9th, 2012 at 09:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Look here, I wasn't suggesting that it was a good idea to have sexual relations in front of children with every bozo you meet. If that's what a person is interested in, and they have children, there are always backseats or motels.

OTOH if you are planning to enter into a meaningful relationship with someone, I should think that your selection of a partner would be based on qualities and characteristics that you would find admirable, and because of your high standards for a mate, you would have no problem introducing this person to your children. That's what I meant.

by sgr2 on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 at 07:31:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes that would be OK but in reality it's a little bit different. Lonely women tend to try hard to find right one after divorce/separation. Even if they find someone who would fit those standard, that man may not be ready to commit having in mind that there are children involved.
I am not saying that they would have sex in front of their children but usually they will introduce the man thinking that that is the ONE, they tend to start to live together pretty soon, children may even like him and then he goes away. Children would emotionally attach themselves and then they suffer all over again. That's from what I have read on this forums where they explain their pain being a children of divorced/separated parents.
Your scenario would be perfect one. Reality usually is not perfect. And even with a perfect stepfather/stepmother children would still miss their original family.
When I ask my now 11 year old granddaughter how she is going with stepmother ( partner of her father) she said : I avoid her.And that women is really not bad toward my granddaughter...
by vbo on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 at 08:53:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Keep this in mind about such forums: they CAN be gathering places for whiners. I don't say this in a mean-spirited way, but as an honest caution.

Naturally, people who did just fine following their parents' divorce (me, my daughter, my siblings, friends of mine, children of friends of mine) don't go to these forums, so you see ONLY those who feel short-changed by life and think of themselves as victims.

It bothers me how often you refer to families no longer having full contact, but I have seen MANY situations in which divorce did not mean a loss of family, but rather an increase in family. A stepparent often means additional siblings, grandparents, etc. My step-grandson thinks of my husband and myself as grandparents just as fully as any other grandparent he has, and my daughter's favorite grandparent was the mother of her step-mother, a woman I loved as well. My dad explained to me once, when I expressed just a bit of jealousy at how much my daughter loved her step-grandmother, that love is not a pie. You don't have just so many pieces to serve. Love is infinite and you can love as many people as there are to love and love them hugely without running out of love to give. This made beautiful sense to me, so I loved the step-grandmother even more for the love and time she gave to my daughter.

I think your most important point is that adults need to act responsibly. Don't parade your "auditioning" partners to your children, don't have your serious arguments in the presence of the kids, explain things to children and encourage their questions, etc. Love and nourish your children, treat them with respect. Behave with maturity and kindness. Everything else is extraneous (what job you have, whether you're divorced, where you live...). Your concern for children is admirable whether I agree with your feelings about divorce or not.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Tue Nov 20th, 2012 at 02:13:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Occasional Series