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In Greece it is not only the wealthy who cheat, it s everyone.

They robbed their kids.

by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're another of these "I was there so I know" people. So you know that ordinary Greeks of the kind who will take a hit on minimum wages or pensions were all taking on debt and "robbing their kids"?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this a concerted attempt at hijacking this diary, about where real action is taking place to try and end a horror show?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
not really, but do you really thing this "action" matter one bit ? LOL
by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:16:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and your recommended action is?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Ana´s Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 04:29:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, it sure will. This sort of colonialism isn't going to work without tanks.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Feb 13th, 2012 at 11:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The question is, at which point does the public in Core Europe wake up to what's being done in their name and in the name of European unity and solidarity?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 06:06:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Alas, I'm not sanguine about that. Selfishness runs deep, and moral posturing can feel so comfortable.

Plus, the worsening situation is often presented as Greece not upholding its promises -fuelling more anger at those lazy southerners.

So I would say that the public is unlikely to wake up this decade.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 08:12:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The public will wake up when they stand in the breadlines.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 08:26:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 08:39:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Breadlines in Greece:



The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 09:07:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]


tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 10:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And other famous last words.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Feb 14th, 2012 at 03:26:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stats show that 86% are full up with taxes. 14% are responsible for 30% tax evasion. If your paycheck is docked art the source, how can you cheat? There are also 23% VAT taxes.

Now, since the argument is that Greece's bureaucracy is bloated, how are you to argue that everyone cheats? A bloated bureaucracy of half of all workers means half of all workers at least are taxed at the source. There's a contradiction there.

by Upstate NY on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there's got to be an infographic that shows that somewhere

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 03:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. (I'm on the run, back and forth from the flaming and teargas drenched streets - more soon)

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 04:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://twitpic.com/8j2csm

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 05:14:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretty much this: Those that tax evaded are rewarded. Those that didn't are punished now. Luxury taxes are abolished, VAT on food is increased... And this isn't about Greece - it's bankster capitalism starting to swallow the welfare state. You are next.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sun Feb 12th, 2012 at 04:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed.

My concern isn't that the economics of the bailout make no sense - obviously, they don't - but that Greece is being used as a testbed for a return to 19th century capitalist values across Europe.

Not so popularly known as 'reform.'

So yes - I think it's likely we'll see similar measures in other countries, using whatever melodramatic excuses can be waved in front of the financial press.

This is basically a class-led land-grab similar to the Enclosures in the UK and the Clearances in Scotland, but making a claim on the productive economy instead of physical territory.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Feb 13th, 2012 at 05:55:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
This is basically a class-led land-grab similar to the Enclosures in the UK and the Clearances in Scotland, but making a claim on the productive economy instead of physical territory.

bingo. the consumer economy is tapped out, and there's nothing to take its place.

planet couldn't take it this way for long anyway.

i heard an italian economist say today that all greece's profitable industries are registered and pay taxes in the netherlands, wtf?

nothing else but yoghurt and tourism, according to him...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Feb 13th, 2012 at 09:29:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is also very similar to the situation in the US in the 1890s with the Robber Barons, the labour conflicts of 1893 (Eugene Debs) etc.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 13th, 2012 at 07:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Luckily, there is a strong intellectual argument, supported by solid technical analysis and factual understanding, that is being used to drive a popular social movement to reverse the trend, which will lead to a changed political environment and suitable adjustments to the overall system.

Not.

by asdf on Wed Feb 15th, 2012 at 12:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Occupy movement?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 15th, 2012 at 03:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, they have a good organizational name. Now all they need is...all the other stuff.
by asdf on Wed Feb 15th, 2012 at 10:29:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See this Reuters blog: Occupy's amazing Volcker Rule letter by Felix Salmon (FEBRUARY 14, 2012)

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 16th, 2012 at 09:05:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's great wonkery. But you don't accomplish social change by wonkery, you do it by having a populist story and a lot of political power.
by asdf on Thu Feb 16th, 2012 at 10:00:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
asdf:
you do it by having a populist story

The 1% stole everything. We are the 99%.

asdf:

and a lot of political power

Yes, it is unclear how the Occupy movement can translate their street presence into political change, without loosing their strengths. But the meetings are a start.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Feb 16th, 2012 at 11:14:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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