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I am lecturing now. Very funny. And spain was what when you were born? And no, calling the citizens of democratic state supporters of a fascist dictatorship is not inside the bounds of discourse.

Do really don't see the problem with the misuse of terms like fascism or dictatorship?  

by IM on Sat Feb 18th, 2012 at 05:27:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not that I like to get this personal, I was born the day after Franco died so we didn't have a democratic constitution until I was 3, we had a involutionist coup when I was 5 and a bit, and we were still having domestic terrorism deaths until just about yesterday. You don't happen to have personal memories of the RAF, I suspect. ETA murdered somebody on my street and exploded one car bomb in the neighbourhood of my school.

Do you want to go on?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 18th, 2012 at 05:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You started this remember?

And in my lifetime, including ma adult life the RAF was still quite active.

by IM on Sat Feb 18th, 2012 at 05:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
calling the citizens of democratic state supporters of a fascist dictatorship is not inside the bounds of discourse.

The Greek government is not fascist... yet.

It will qualify as soon as the elections are postponed, however, as Germany is currently demanding that they are.

So yes, Merkel's government is supporting a fascist coup in Greece. And 85 % or so of the German population is cheering on them as they do so.

If you do not see why this is a problem, then you are not a part of the solution.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 02:50:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If I would live in your alternative timeline, I would see that as a problem too.

Happily I don't.

by IM on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 05:44:14 PM EST
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What alternative timeline are you talking about?

Are you meaning to say that Schäuble has not suggested that the Greek elections should be postponed?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 06:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's say for arguments sake, that he has suggested that.

a) are they postponed?

b) will they be postponed?

c) wouldn't that be - up to certain time of course - quite legal under the greek constitution?

by IM on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 06:38:54 PM EST
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So you are denying that he has, in fact, said that?

And why does Greek compliance or non-compliance with Stasi 2.0's antidemocratic demands make a difference to whether Stasi 2.0 was supporting antidemocratic actions?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 06:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am never dying nor admitting anything in that respect. I don't know. Was that the famous video or are we talking about more official statements.

To you second question, isn't it quite important to your fascism in greece thesis, if things actually happen?

And my c), isn't a election until 2013 (or 2014) not necessary anyway?

by IM on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 06:49:52 PM EST
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denying.

I don't make up stories about dying, not even my own.

by IM on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 06:51:29 PM EST
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You're a joke.

Greece faces call to put off elections

EUROZONE finance ministers are considering a German demand for Greece to postpone its national election as a condition of another huge bailout.

According to diplomats close to the talks, ministers meeting in Brussels tonight to decide on a E130 billion ($159bn) loan package may require a delay to the Greek election due in April so the nation's unelected technocratic government can implement harsher austerity measures.

Germany's demand, which will strengthen Greek claims the rescue package is undemocratic, is being pressed by Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble and supported by The Netherlands, Finland and Italy, which, like Greece, is ruled by unelected technocrats.

Also, this just in from the FT: Greece must default if it wants democracy (by Wolfgang Münchau)
When Wolfgang Schäuble proposed that Greece should postpone its elections as a condition for further help, I knew that the game would soon be up. We are at the point where success is no longer compatible with democracy. The German finance minister wants to prevent a "wrong" democratic choice. Similar to this is the suggestion to let the elections go ahead, but to have a grand coalition irrespective of the outcome. The eurozone wants to impose its choice of government on Greece - the eurozone's first colony.

...

A senior German official has told me that his preference is to force Greece into an immediate default. I can therefore only make sense of Mr Schäuble's proposal to postpone elections as a targeted provocation intended to illicit an extreme reaction from Athens. If that was the goal, it seems to be working. Karolos Papoulias, the Greek president, fired back at Mr Schäuble's "insults". Evangelos Venizelos, finance minister, said certain elements wanted to push Greece out of the eurozone. Conspiracy theories abound. Hardly a day passes by without a cartoon in the Greek press of Angela Merkel and Mr Schäuble in Nazi uniforms. German MPs expressed outrage at the Greek outrage. Bild, the German mass-market daily, is calling for Greece to be "kicked out" of the eurozone. I shudder at the thought of an act of violence committed against Germans in Greece or Greeks in Germany. This is the kind of conflict that could easily escalate.

...

The German strategy seems to be to make life so unbearable that the Greeks themselves will want to leave the eurozone. Ms Merkel certainly does not want to be caught with a smoking gun in her hand. It is a strategy of assisted suicide, and one that is extremely dangerous and irresponsible.



tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 07:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The usual speculation and a link to walled content. Of an australian murdoch  newspaper.

But I have looked it up now and he did say something like what. We will see tomorrow how far that is an official demand and more important, if the election are delayed. If the elections go on as planned, can we then lay the endless babbling about fascism to rest?

by IM on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 07:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What, Stasi 2.0 has suddenly taken to making mouth-noises that are not demands?

And no, we are not going to let you make apologies for Stasi 2.0's support of fascism just because he happens to lose. Because the fact that he happens to lose is not his doing. Support for annulling elections is support for annulling elections, whether elections are held in the end or not.

And no, supporting the annulment of elections is not an acceptable bargaining ploy either, so don't bother making that particular vapid excuse.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 07:46:30 PM EST
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You do know that anulling a election is something quite different?

I know you are on "was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbour" roll, but still.

"And no, supporting the annulment of elections is not an acceptable bargaining ploy either, so don't bother making that particular vapid excuse."

Still makino my arguments in your head?

by IM on Sun Feb 19th, 2012 at 07:51:48 PM EST
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