Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy | 423 comments (422 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

Still, crucial things like rents do not increase.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

There's always rent-seeking.

Right now it's patently clear that the moneyed class in Spain is getting ready to milk the working population for what they can. When the country implodes, they'll move to Monaco or Miami or something.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

If people can't pay the rents, you'll lose tenants, and eventually you'll reduce rents so as to fill your houses to capacity.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

You know how many dwellings are empty in Spain already because owners will rather not rent them out?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

In the long run, they will. And yes, yes, in the long run etc...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

The answer, already, is a whole lotta.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:38:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

probably because it's almost impossible to evict someone, like in France

by stevesim on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

On the other hand, I hear that in Germany there are renters' neighbourhood associations set up to protect unwary renters from the predation of landlords.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 03:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

there are these associations to protect renters but the proprietors often rip off the renters of their Kaution.

by stevesim on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:10:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

That's also normal in Spain.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

interesting. I had never come across that until recently.

by stevesim on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

I mean, what recourse does the renter have?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:21:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

suing the owner in Germany is the norm, with the renter's association giving free legal advice and typing up the forms.

by stevesim on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

recourse of the renter (4.00 / 2)

Er, when the kaution was 3 rents, I used to stop paying rent 3 months before I moved out. Just to save the owner the trouble of transferring the money. I thought it's only a problem if the kaution is so high that an eviction would take less time. More than 3 rents wasn't allowed, though, and I believe this hasn't changed.

by Katrin on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 05:11:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: recourse of the renter (none / 1)

In Bavaria, they take it out of your bank account. And they don't stop even after you leave.....

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 02:13:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: recourse of the renter (none / 1)

"Lastschriftverfahren", I know. Too few people know that the bank transfers the money back to you if you only raise a finger. It's a method that is based on trust: the bank transfers money from your account to someone who claims you allowed that without asking questions. If you protest, they transfer it back, and again without questioning if the other party might be entitled to the money.

by Katrin on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 06:08:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: recourse of the renter (none / 0)

Which is exactly what I did. Only problem was that I had left enough money in my account to cover my last electricity and phone bills. The landlord took an additional month's rent, despite the fact that there was not enough money in the account for this. They then refused to pay the other bills, as my balance was negative....

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 06:18:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: recourse of the renter (none / 0)

Oh shit. I hope you raised hell and the landlord's standing with the bank was not too good.

by Katrin on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 06:26:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 1)

And in the U.S. Germany is just like stevesim says (though my experience was with Bavaria....) But I had no problem getting mine back in Belgium. I've no idea if this is typical, or whether this was because the owner was grateful to me for staying until the end of the lease, the previous tenant having broken it unexpectedly to move to the local jail.....

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 0)

It's known to happen in France.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:28:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy (none / 1)

This must surely be the reason why tenants in France never pay the rent. They can't be evicted, so why bother?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Feb 20th, 2012 at 04:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Debts, promises and the erosion of democracy | 423 comments (422 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)

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