Dutch Austerity 2.0 | 48 comments (48 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Well, that's a lot clearer.

Disappointing in the short term, insofar as the emerging narrative "even the self-righteous Dutch can't actually deliver austerity" was a powerful one.

But what's next? Are we are still on track for elections in September, or will a new coalition emerge? Are the left campaigning against austerity? Are the three bigger parties of the left capable of governing together?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:07:14 AM EST

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

I think what's next is that the target is missed all the same because austerity in a recession cannot work, to the benefit of the Socialist, Labour and, yes, Wilders.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

As far as I understand there will still be an election on September, 12th. And what do you mean the three bigger left parties? PdA, the socialists and who is the third?

I assume neither D66 nor the "greens" (what greens surely not groenleft?) can be plausibly a part of a left coalition now after voting for the budget.

Failure of austerity: Isn't between now and the elections a bit short time period to get any results if austerity works? They will discuss July numbers in early September.

by IM on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:28:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 1)

I assume neither D66 nor the "greens" (what greens surely not groenleft?) can be plausibly a part of a left coalition now after voting for the budget.

In this kind of crisis, it is the Social liberal corner that suffers the most from the contradiction between its principles and reality.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:36:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

But yes, GroenLinks:

DutchNews.nl - Crisis averted? Five-party coalition agrees austerity package

Finance minister Jan Kees de Jager has succeeded in making a deal to cut the deficit together with the D66 Liberal democrats, green party GroenLinks and small Christian party ChristenUnie.

I'm really curious about their justification.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

"for the good of the country we have to be responsible"

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:40:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (4.00 / 2)

No, they voted for it after winning significant concessions, as told in the press release: crisis tax on the wealthy, crisis support for those on minimum wage, annulment of cuts in education, culture, public transport, elimination of coal and gas subsidies, support for solar power. But I find nothing on how they explain choosing to extract these concessions from the outgoing Rutte government rather than its successor elected in the next elections, or on how propping up Rutte will influence Rutte's chances in the next election.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 05:13:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

Yes groenlinks. But I always thought that they were more leftwing then your usual european green party. My political knowledge of the Netherlands seems to be out of date.

Perhaps they imitate switzerlands were one of the green parties call themselves grünliberale, that is green-liberal. Seems a more fitting name nowadays.

by IM on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:52:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

At the European level only the Nordic Green Left caucuses with the "European United Left". The rest of the Green Parties are with the European Free Alliance (of non-ALDE liberals and regionalists).

That has to be telling us something...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

I always had the impression that groenLinks - because of the "Links" and after all the communist party of the Netherlands was one founding elements - was to the left of say the German greens or the French greens.

But I should leave my early nineties impressions behind. Time and tide wait for no man and not for political parties either, t seems.

And the name is The Greens - European Free Alliance so I am not that surprised it is the first choice for green parties.

by IM on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 05:09:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

the name is The Greens - European Free Alliance so I am not that surprised it is the first choice for green parties

No, the question is why The European Green Party_ decide to form a European Parliament Group with the EFA instead of other forces, or to group by themselves.

The EFA, after all,

>generally limited its membership to progressive parties, and therefore, not all European regionalist parties are members of EFA."

Also, the alliance of the European Green Party with the European Left Regionalists explains this spat.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 05:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You've answered your own question (4.00 / 2)

Communist parties, despite their theoretical adherence to internationalism, generally seem to turn out to be nationalist, anti-regionalist and anti-federalist in European terms.

Greens, on the other hand, are in favour of both localizing and internationalizing decision-making, and in general, tend to regard the nation-state as the most counter-productive decision-making level.

And I would put it the other way round with respect to the spat.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 05:49:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've answered your own question (4.00 / 3)

I think the spat has nothing to with the party groups in the european parliament, who are all a bit unusual on the fringes. The question identity as citizen - identity as member of a cultural group - language as technological and administrative tool versus language as part of heritage and identity are much deeper.

And It can be argued that the still centralising french left is the outsider here.

And is doubtful if dwindling languages can be revived: Just look at Irish. On the other hand look at welsh.
Our communists were quite supportive to the sorabians by the way: Didn't help them much, though

And no I don't think the current position of GroenLinks on the budget has a connection to their position on frisian. (Whatever that position is)

by IM on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 06:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've answered your own question (none / 1)

I think the spat has nothing to with the party groups in the european parliament

No, I think it illustrates quite nicely why european greens feel more comfortable caucusing with progressive regionalists than with communists. I hope you are right about the French left being the outlier with respect to the centralizing state, in which case there may be hope for future co-operation, insofar as they are, belatedly, greening their views.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 07:11:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've answered your own question (4.00 / 3)

The problem with regionalism and European federalism is that in contemporary political reality that means deregulation and privatisation, because in contemporary European political reality, the only entity powerful enough to police business is the state.

Devolving power to the regions and ceding it to the EU is to place the cart before the horse: Those institutions need to actually be useful before they can be entrusted with additional power.

tl;dr: Bring the ECB decisively to heel and we can talk about a federal Europe.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Apr 28th, 2012 at 05:52:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 0)

Well. The "Nordic Green Left" group only includes two parties which have "green" in their title : the icelandic "Left-Green movement", and the Danish "Red-Green Alliance". Between them they have one MEP. I don't know enough about the other member parties to say whether the group's title is a case of greenwashing or not, but the member parties all seem to be of communist origin.

The European Green Party forms a group (47 of the total 58) with regionalists of progressive stripe (with an embarassing Flemish exception), and various colourful independents. I'm not able to identify the "non-ALDE liberals", who did you have in mind?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 05:41:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dutch Austerity 2.0 (none / 1)

The "non-ALDE liberals" was a brainfart on my part. It's actually the "non-progressive regionalists" that end up in ALDE.

Regionalist parties appeal to the social-liberal streak in their political allies, be it the European Greens or the ELDR. As IM points out, the traditional Communist left tended to be statist and illiberal (seeing both individualism and regionalism as bourgeois or reactionnary). Right at the core of the spat, if you ask me.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 07:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes (4.00 / 3)

Elections are still on the way. Final date will be decided today. Tentative date: September 12.

Principally, it would've been possible for Rutte to start looking for a new working coalition. But giving the lengthy mess it took in 2010 to form a working coalition and the resounding failure to cooperate with Wilders, are some reasons to hand that decision to the people.

Left unsaid in the diary that over the past 1.5 years several political 'coalitions of the willing' had emerged that kept the government going. For European affairs, Rutte's cabinet could never rely on Wilders, but still found support in opposition parties, particularly Labour often plugged the gap. For the extension of, say, military missions in Afghanistan, the cabinet relied on the same political alliance that now hammered out the new austerity plans.

The bigger left parties - SP and Labour - have already announced they don't see the need for jumping through the austerity hoops in times of economic recession. I'd guess this will become part of their political campaigning. In this regard, they will be joined by the biting anti-EU rhetoric of Wilders.

The larger left-orientated parties - SP, Labour, Greens - have not formed a majority for decades, and this still applies today. Also note that the Greens, moving more and more to the economic right, have signed up for austerity measures.

by Nomad (Bjinse) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:36:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (4.00 / 4)

Greens continue to confuse monetary austerity with environmental conservation.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:42:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (none / 0)

Confuse and confuse... if they want people to inhabit caves in a preindustrial society, austerity is the right policy.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Sun Apr 29th, 2012 at 02:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (none / 0)

The larger left-orientated parties - SP, Labour, Greens - have not formed a majority for decades

Political incompatibility? Where are the red lines which prevent coalition? Are they still inviolable in the current situation?

On paper, it looks as if the left, fragmented as it is, ought to get a majority. Does this leave us staring at a (disastrous) centre-left/centre-right coalition, in the German style?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 04:49:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (4.00 / 9)

No, Dutch society is in principle very bourgeois, left wing parties have only been able to form a majority government by ruling together with the centrist christian parties, either protestant or roman-catholic.

Furthermore the socialist party portray themselves as the true left wing party, the greens are confusing liberalism in society with liberalism in economic policy and Labour is somewhere in between. Also the greenleft party usually derides the socialists and Labour as old-fashioned and like now does not want to co"operate with them, because they themselves are the only true progressive (tm) party.

Or to exaggerate a little, the greens are the student city dwellers, labour the old poor people on the country side, although only in certain parts of the country admittedly, and the socialists the new working poor.

And yes, german politics is kinda like dutch politics.

by Wilfred on Tue May 1st, 2012 at 07:36:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Welcome to European Tribune (4.00 / 7)

A depressingly familiar picture.

Last Thursday I attended an event with the Danish greens, where it was explained to them, using small words, that the left needs to have an industrial policy if we are to have a prayer of countering right-wing populism.

Based on the Q&A session afterwards, I would be pleasantly surprised if a third of those present understood anything of what was said. Based on the discussion in the audience following the Q&A session, I would be pleasantly surprised if half of those who understood what the talk said did not know it when they arrived.

Lots and lots of nice people and good will there. But no economic analysis worth the paper it's written on.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 1st, 2012 at 01:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Welcome to European Tribune (none / 0)

Lots and lots of nice people and good will there. But no economic analysis worth the paper it's written on.

Been there, done that. You are a true hero Jake for actually trying to educate people. It's more than I usually have the energy for. Keep up the good work!

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 07:56:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Election Map The Netherlands (none / 0)

.
See map for geographic presentation of Election Results 2012. Labour party (PvdA) is well represented in all large cities: Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam, Dordrecht, Utrecht and even in Maastricht. In the rural area, the two northern provinces Friesland and Groningen are very strong Labour (in the past Communist).

"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Tue May 1st, 2012 at 05:50:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (none / 1)

Wilfred:

Or to exaggerate a little, the greens are the student city dwellers, labour the old poor people on the country side, although only in certain parts of the country admittedly, and the socialists the new working poor.

Often, I find a description of the groups involved has more predicative power on what a party will do then an analysis of the stated ideology.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed May 2nd, 2012 at 02:22:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dutch Austerity 2.0 | 48 comments (48 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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