European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 12 May | 61 comments (61 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Hatchet job on wind power (none / 1)

In Europhysics News: Wind turbines as yet unsuitable as electricity providers [PDF] by C. le Pair, F. Udo and K. de Groot,
3 April 2012

Wind turbines have been widely accepted as electricity producers thanks to claims that wind comes free of charge, and each kWh thus produced replaces a kWh provided by conventional techniques, i.e., it saves the fossil fuel otherwise needed. However, these assumptions have never been validated in existing power distribution systems even after the installation of as much as 86 GW of wind power in Europe alone.

Jerome, Crazy Horse and/or others might want to comment...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:46:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hatchet job on wind power (none / 0)

no time yet today, but you called it... a hatchet job. will try to read later, but what i've read reads like the rest. Can't comment on the flawed assumptions yet.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 04:15:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hatchet job on wind power (none / 0)

I posted it because Europhysics news, while not a top journal, is very widely distributed among European physicists so this article can have a disproportionate impact on a sensitive demographic, much more serious than, say, a hit piece in The Guardian.

Should we work on a response in article form? DoDo, are you game?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 04:18:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hatchet job on wind power (none / 1)

Urgh... I planned to use my time over the weekend for something else, but I can contribute ideas:

they seem to be beating the strawman of a 100% wind future, and a strawman that wind power intermittency is to be balanced in isolation;
they seem to be re-hashing non-own research by anti-wind think-tanks on the same subject;
they list several second-order effects that change fossil fuel plant efficiency, apparently assuming that these only play a role when wind is present but not when the normal dirunal variation of demand and baseload plant shutdowns and disruptions have to be balanced;
they ignore contary data on the development of CO2 emissions, for example in Germany last year;
they make a completely spurious point on land use, with unsourced claims on the effect on real estate prices.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 10:52:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hatchet job on wind power (none / 1)

The paper is over a month old, we don't have to write a reply right now.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 11:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hatchet job on wind power (none / 0)

By the same authors: The impact of wind generated electricity on fossil fuel consumption. (by C. le Pair & K. de Groot)

Wind turbines produce electricity which is delivered to the grid. Variations in wind velocity cause yield variations. Conventional power stations are forced to compensate these variations by adjusting their output. This has a negative effect on the efficiency of the latter stations. Using data provided by CBS, the Dutch Institute for Statistics, an estimate is made of the so called "turning point". This is the point where the efficiency reduction of conventional power stations balances out the fuel saving of the wind turbines, and where the CO2 emission reduction turns negative as well. In the Netherlands the data for the year 2007 show this to be the case at an efficiency reduction of all power stations of about 2 %. The Dutch government uses an incorrect formula for calculating the fuel and emission saving from wind energy. On this subject parliament has been incorrectly advised by government.
In addition, fuel costs required for initial installation of wind turbines are substantial.
Application of wind energy without adequate buffer and storage facilities serves no green purpose.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 05:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 12 May | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Top Diaries

No More Equality Under the Law, the End of Isonomy in...

Generating a toxic discourse that's not really about ARINS

Energy (and Other) Events Monthly - May 2025

Recent Diaries

Stop Bloodshed, Invest In Peace

Trump: Sanctions Are Self Defeating

City Agriculture - May 13, 2025

Major Shift Powers in Mena - West Asia

China Trade Deal: Repair 4 Years of Biden Neglect

Trump: Zelensky Should Agree to Direct Talks w Putin

IDF Sniper Murderer of Shireen Abu Akleh Named

Rift Trump w Netanyahu Deepens

MAGA Freaked Out on Election Leo XIV

A Deal of the Century In the Making .. Again

Israel Aims a Political Ban on Dutch Institutions

Nakim Terror: Taking the Holocaust to Palestinians

PMQ House of Commons and Israeli War Crimes

Bill Bradley on Russia and NATO

Friedrich Merz Humiliated In 1st Vote

Rogue States Destroying the United Nations

Last Resort: Trump Slaps Erdogan On His Shoulder

Trump Hard Work Reversing JCPOA Decision

WWII Commemoration and Today's Genocide

VE Day Winston Churchill 1945

Occasional Series