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Katrin:
That doesn't change the fact that PR deliberately offended ordinary church members, which isn't consistent with your tale of a political action.

they were collateral damage, i doubt offending those in the pews was the real intent, maybe to wake them up a bit to the difference between diktat and democracy.

the real protest was against the schmoozing between putin and the patriarchs, and as such valid. staging and utoobing were symbolic acts against this unholy lese-majeste marriage.

some in russia remember her history.

protests offend, whatever they are about. people are offended if one protests war, or austerity, it's just the price people are willing to pay when they feel discounted or unheard.

some chain themselves to railings, some play appalling music, whatever it takes to get public attention and serve as rallying cry to other more reticent citizens.

punk is symbol of disaffected youth, russian orthodox church symbol of homophobia and exceptionalism.

they're welcome to each other, amen, oi.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 04:57:00 AM EST
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"Collateral damage" is a concept to shirk responsibility. The expression is used excessively in reporting drone strikes in Pakistan which regularly kill civilians and only rarely fighters.

So PR didn't hit whom they pretend to have targeted. Well, that's what I've been saying all along.

by Katrin on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 05:23:29 AM EST
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What evidence do you have that people present in the church during the filming of the miming of a protest song were actually offended?

Puzzled would be more likely.

(If your evidence is limited to what was reported of what witnesses said in court, and you believe it, then... well I have a business proposition for you concerning a bridge)

And what is your evidence that "PR didn't hit whom they pretend to have targeted"? I rather thing the Stalinist-style show trial is strong evidence that they hit the intended target pretty hard. i.e Putin and the Patriarch were stung by the insults proffered.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Sep 3rd, 2012 at 07:36:34 AM EST
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No, my evidence is not limited to the evidence in court. I've watched the video and the movements of the other people in the church, and then there is my own reaction, too.

I am afraid the show trial bit is a message to the west and I get the impression that Putin enjoys himself and his performance. The ball was played from the prosecutor demanding a very high penalty to Putin calling for a mild one for the misguided ones. Neat. When western media interpreted this as weakness, the sentence and its reasoning. Oops. Putin stung? Where did you get that weed? Or do you by any chance believe that he wants to be seen as a guardian of liberal democracy with a judiciary that is independent from politics?

by Katrin on Mon Sep 3rd, 2012 at 10:40:27 AM EST
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I am afraid the show trial bit is a message to the west

That's a weird interpretation. Sincerely weird. It never would have occurred to me. What's the message? I'm the boss? People already knew that, if they'd been paying attention.

Putin stung? Where did you get that weed?

Do you think he would have risked so much political capital on the affair if it had been beneath his notice? Yes, I believe that the alliance of his political power with the Church is important to him,  he intended to punish those who challenged it in order to reassure his conservative nationalist base. I think he underestimated the domestic backlash. I don't think that international opinion matters a shit to him.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Sep 3rd, 2012 at 11:08:10 AM EST
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"I'm the boss" is rather the version for the domestic audience, I guess. The west had told him to adhere to liberal democracies' judicial standards or else. Putin says "else" and what can Hillary Clinton do? Nothing. So next time the west wants to support a competing oligarchy or some dissidents, they might get problems to find any that want their support.

Mind, that man is proud to be a dictator. He is even proud of being a liar. Have you forgotten his famous if he had invaded Iraq, he would have found WMD? (And so he would, doubtless).

by Katrin on Mon Sep 3rd, 2012 at 01:23:39 PM EST
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John Pussy Riot saga raises the beat at trade talks - Opinion - NZ Herald News

It is not every day that the Russian Embassy in Wellington feels obliged to issue a three-page statement dealing with the behaviour of a feminist punk rock band.

The press release - issued on the eve of Vladimir Putin strutting the world stage by virtue of Russia's hosting of this year's Apec summit - was tacit acknowledgement the Russian president has been embarrassed by the international outrage over the two-year jail sentences imposed on members of Pussy Riot.

The embassy's statement - which consisted of answers supplied by Russia's foreign ministry to questions posed by foreign media - was an indication Moscow has shifted into damage control mode and that the sentences have backfired.



It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 08:32:08 AM EST
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