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Well, defamatory mischief and disturbing a service are not the same, that's why they need to be listed separately.

By the way, what in the world is "defamatory mischief"? "Disturbing a service" actually means something.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 12:13:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Mischief" is everything condemnable that wasn't listed elsewhere. Sentencing entirely depends on the Zeitgeist. And "defamatory", well, that means not any mischief.
by Katrin on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 12:47:19 PM EST
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So "being a naughty boy in church", pretty much, is a crime in Germany?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 12:56:34 PM EST
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Well, being a defamatorily naughty boy is. Apparently the section isn't used very often.
by Katrin on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 01:37:17 PM EST
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the mischief ha to be defamatory or insulting, that is supposed a bit more. This part of the law rarely used, there are also very few court decisions interpreting it.
by IM on Fri Aug 31st, 2012 at 06:15:02 AM EST
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defamatory [dɪˈfæmətərɪ -trɪ]
adj
(Law) injurious to someone's name or reputation
defamatorily  adv

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 01:41:34 PM EST
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Wait, so if a German preacher makes a political speech in their church and they make defamatory statements about some politician or other, they are liable under this law?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 01:52:36 PM EST
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I do not know but I can tell you that making political speech in a Church mostly means that people will avoid that specific church and priest (maybe not in USA). Happened in NZ with our priest during Milosevic time...We ended up going to Greek church (there was no another one Serbian). So it goes kind of against them. People are not imbeciles (well most of them)and they do not come to church for political reasons (well most of them).

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 02:04:20 PM EST
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No. With a clear background of political speech I can't imagine they would be found guilty. Or if they were, by a lowly Amtsgericht, this wouldn't survive the appeal.
by Katrin on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 02:10:58 PM EST
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I don't know about German legal tradition, but either in the preliminary legislative workings or in precedence their is an answer. Which is probably 'No'.

It is fun to twist legalese, but it has its own system to tackle the ambiguities of language. I don't think this text is that had to parse, if you do enough stuff to mock, humiliate or somesuch the church (synagogue, mosque, party HQ (see the last bit)) you are in, you can be found guilty.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 02:34:23 PM EST
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" party HQ (see the last bit))"

LOL. No, that's a translation issue. That means a ceremony of a non-religious association. Jugendweihe instead of confirmation and so.  

by Katrin on Thu Aug 30th, 2012 at 02:47:01 PM EST
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I see.

I think it is a smart clause anyway, it gets around defining religion. After all it was the fact that Swedish law had a way to register a religion (and nothing but a religion) that allowed the Missionary Church of Kopimism to register as a religion (after a couple of attempts).

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 31st, 2012 at 05:12:11 AM EST
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No. They are using their own church, after all. This law protects from disruption/insult from outside.

They could be liable under the common libel laws, though.

There was a special law for this kind of situation once, though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulpit_Law

 

by IM on Fri Aug 31st, 2012 at 06:12:37 AM EST
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