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Hah...Calling my religious feelings " God's shit" is like if you call me "idiot". And there is no "Ops". I haven't heard them apologize. I believe apologizing is what makes a difference with intent to offend as opposed to something that was not intentional to hurt...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 07:26:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, calling you an "idiot" is defamatory. Calling your beliefs "shit" is not.

You are not your beliefs and your beliefs are not you. Defaming your beliefs does not defame you, and defaming you does not defame your beliefs.

I don't even know the name for the fallacy of mistaking attacks on your views for attacks on your person, but "inverse ad hominem" seems appropriate.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 07:33:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now again you are trying to be smart.
We are not talking about my VIEWS that anyone can attack at wish. We are talking about my religious feelings. But it is really hard to explain to someone who simply hates word religious and is not aware of the fact that some people have these feelings too.
I am sorry but I do not see my feelings and my believes if you wish as not being part of me.
And mental abuse in the eyes of law now is almost equal to physical abuse. And damage may be even worse.
We are not talking here about our views in politic , we are not even commenting brother social issues...
Luckily they put much more consideration in making laws that you "progressives" would.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 07:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We are not talking about my VIEWS that anyone can attack at wish. We are talking about my religious feelings.

So, religious beliefs are not just opinions, they are something more essential?

Of course religious people will make that claim, but what makes it true?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 07:57:35 AM EST
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Of course religious people will make that claim, but what makes it true?  

That's what you are not able to understand and probably never will because you are lacking a bit of spiritual component in your soul ( no offense). There is nothing that can be done here. So I give up.
How do I give you an evidence of feelings...it is not material...it's not science...I simply do not have will to drag this conversation any farther...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 08:11:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you saying I don't have feelings?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 08:14:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what you are not able to understand and probably never will because you are lacking a bit of spiritual component in your soul

Um, why should the law take it on your say-so that such a difference exists?

Particularly when it looks, to all empirical investigation, as though the disparity in the severity of your reaction is due to nothing more than the fact that the beliefs in question are not regularly questioned, whereas your other beliefs are?

That would rather argue for more challenges to your religious beliefs, to make you not break down into dysfunction whenever someone tells you that Creationism is idiocy or that God is dead.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 08:45:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We are not talking about my VIEWS that anyone can attack at wish. We are talking about my religious feelings.

Ding! I'll have "distinctions without a difference" for 1,000.

I am sorry but I do not see my feelings and my believes if you wish as not being part of me.

Then you are not mature enough to take part in a democratic debate.

Global warming is real. Evolution is real. HIV causes AIDS. Vaccinations work. Homeopathy does not work, nor does chiroquacktic. If you don't believe these facts, then you believe bullshit fairy tales.

Pointing that out is not an attack on your person. It is an attack on bullshit fairy tales that you happen to carry around in your head.

And mental abuse in the eyes of law now is almost equal to physical abuse. And damage may be even worse.

I know people who have been victims of mental abuse.

You comparing "God is shit" to mental abuse is offensive in the extreme to anybody who has ever actually been abused, physically or mentally. Equating "God is shit" to the systematic breaking of a human spirit demonstrates total cluelessness, incredible arrogance or such towering privilege as is difficult for me to wrap my mind around.

We are not talking here about our views in politic , we are not even commenting brother social issues...

The Patriarch made that a political subject when he peddled partisan political propaganda from the pulpit.

If you don't like playing by the rules of political discourse, write the Patriarch and tell him how disappointed you are that he drags the Church into petty partisan politics.

But don't genuflect before his petty partisan political propaganda peddling out of one side of your mouth and then out the other condemn people for treating the Orthodox Church as they would any other European ugly party.

That's dishonest special pleading.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 08:08:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you don't like playing by the rules of political discourse, write the Patriarch and tell him how disappointed you are that he drags the Church into petty partisan politics.

Huh I can't stop my self.
How do you know that I didn't do something similar? I did write to my Patriarch when I wasn't able to accept how my Church welcomed war/and other criminals in to the service, for example.
That did not make me less religious person.
I boycotted going in to my Church when priest was preaching politics during Milosevic.
That did not make me less religious person.\
But what definitely is going to make me rude and very impolite is if I continue this conversation with you.
And I am not going to fall that low.
So Goodbye!

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein

by vbo on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 08:24:36 AM EST
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How do you know that I didn't do something similar?

I don't. Congratulations to you if you did.

Sadly, you lost. You have my sympathy. I know very well how it sucks to see reactionaries hijack an organization you love.

But the fact that you lost means that those reactionaries are now the ones who control the Russian Orthodox Church. And that makes the church a valid target.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 2nd, 2012 at 08:55:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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