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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:21:35 PM EST
BBC News - Ed Miliband: Let churches stage same-sex weddings

Plans to allow same sex marriages in England and Wales should be extended to religious institutions, Labour leader Ed Miliband has said.

He said faith groups who "want to provide that opportunity for gay couples... should be able to do so".

Ministers are consulting on allowing civil marriages for same-sex couples.

Leading Churches oppose calling gay partnership ceremonies marriages, saying they could undermine the status of marriage.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 03:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
soon we'll have gay vicar couples in the vicarage. ;)

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 06:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Much tho' I support that, I think it might be better to get gay marriage on the statute books first, and that might entail leaving religionist institutions out. You can come back to that later once it has been shown that the sky hasn't fallen in.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:08:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see why political institutions should interfere with religious rites in any case.

Ah now I remember. In the UK, various varieties of shaman (shamen? shapersons?) can register as marriage celebrant, blurring the line between the institution of marriage as a civil contract and whatever the particular sect or tribe claims marriage to be.

It would be simpler to cut that link, i.e. people who want to get married according to the law go to the registry office, and people who want to celebrate some mystical rite can do that, and it's nobody's business if the two groups happen to overlap.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:32:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hear, hear.

(Is there same-sex handfasting?)

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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:33:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, it would be simpler to put the link fully back into place. Despite the enthusiasm of the Enlightenment crowd, religion and politics are irretrievably enmeshed with each others in any human society. The cleanest way to run your system is to have an official state religion, and if some troublemakers don't want to participate in it, you can either transport them to Australia or cut off their heads.

You will have a civil war once in a while to contend with, but that may be easier to deal with over the long run...

by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you left off the "a modest proposal" at the start there.


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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's a diary topic for you. What is ideology? On state religions, totalitarian regimes, and the Enlightenment utopia.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlin tables new circumcision law proposal | Germany | DW.DE | 27.09.2012

s circumcising an infant or boy a form of physical assault? A German court ruling unleashed a heated debate on this question a few months ago, and now a new law is expected to provide clarity.

The German government wants to enshrine the circumcision of Jewish and Muslim boys in law. To this end, Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger presented the cornerstones of her new proposal to the state governments and relevant associations on Tuesday (25.09.2012).

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  • At birth, the foreskin is fused to the glans in the same way as finger nails to fingers.

  • Anaestetics in infants is dodgy at best.

  • Middle-eastern traditions are acceptable, African traditions are not.

  • Practices of sufficiently powerful minorities are good, practices of other minorities are bad.

  • A pin-prick to the clitoris is mutilation, removing half the nerve endings in the penis is a beautiful religious ritual.

  • As values go, 'Care/harm' will lose to 'Loyalty/betrayal', 'Authority/subversion' and 'Sanctity/degradation'.

"I don't want to live on this planet anymore."
-Prof. Farnsworth


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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
or two?

regarding statements "pin-prick to the clitoris" (i.e., where is this considered a crime of genital mutilation on the statutes somewhere?) and "half the nerve endings in the penis".

Probably the statement "anaestetics in infants is dodgy at best" can be challenged as well.

Reputable citations are therefore requested, as I don't think either of these statements are true.

Further, circumcision is not, strictly speaking, only a middle eastern tradition, as the practise is widespread in many western countries, and for reasons other than to follow a middle eastern tradition.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:40:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The words "reputable" and "strictly speaking" make me think this is going to be like debating a creationist ...

Nerves:
15 square inches.
over all view on operation

Anaesthesia:
No, I think you're right. Too much conflicting information.

Law:
New Zealand
UK.
EU resolution - "any form of female genital mutilation, of whatever degree"
US federal law - doesn't appear to prohibit things that don't actually remove tissue. Good news, huh!
Various US state laws

Ooh, the mother lode  - eh, lots of dead links.

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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:10:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the citations. I think there are likely others on the other side of the foreskin issue, so the "reputable" comment is well taken.

Still don't see anything though which refers to a pin prick as being genital mutilation, if so I would expect all these nations to outlaw the practise of genital piercing.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:02:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Islamists who pose a threat 'have no place in France' - FRANCE - FRANCE 24

France's Socialist government vowed Thursday to do more to integrate the country's Muslims but warned that it would not tolerate the country becoming a hotbed of Islamic radicalism.

In a speech marking the inauguration of the Strasbourg Grand Mosque, the biggest Islamic place of worship ever built on French soil, Interior Minister Manuel Valls pledged to come down hard on extremists, warning that foreign activists trying to stir up trouble would be immediately deported.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What about Christians who pose a threat? Jews? Atheists?
by asdf on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By definition Muslims pose a threat. Period.
by Katrin on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | French court bans Christ advert
France's Catholic Church has won a court injunction to ban a clothing advertisement based on Leonardo da Vinci's Christ's Last Supper.

The display was ruled "a gratuitous and aggressive act of intrusion on people's innermost beliefs", by a judge.

by Katrin on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What ? That christ didn't own his own clothes ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:10:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | French court bans Christ advert
"When you trivialise the founding acts of a religion, when you touch on sacred things, you create an unbearable moral violence which is a danger to our children," said lawyer Thierry Massis.

From limb to limb of that sentence, there is an escalation towards the absurd that probably only lawyers in full spate know how to produce.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So does laïcité make this sort of verdict more or less likely?

I would have thought the legal system was part of the "state".


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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:30:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect this is a rather personal verdict from the judge, that is not likely to be later confirmed.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Accursed activist judges and their war on advertising!


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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The original trial dates from 2005.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I remember that.

I also remember that the judgement was struck down :

La Cène (Girbaud) - Wikipédia

Le 14 novembre 2006, la Cour de cassation a annulé l'arrêt de la cour d'appel de Paris du 8 avril 2005 et, statuant sur le fond du litige, a débouté l'association Croyances et libertés[1].

It seems to me that the original judge was swayed either by his personal beliefs, or those that he saw as dominant in society. That's completely out of order.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:29:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Video: Muslim women arrested in Paris for wearing (perfectly legal) headscarves | The Electronic Intifada

A video first published by Le Parisien and shot on Saturday shows French police arresting women in the Place du Trocadéro in Paris apparently just for wearing headscarves.

Le Parisien explained that France's Interior Minister had ordered a prohibition on any demonstrations amid tight security restrictions on French diplomatic missions abroad as the French magazine Charlie Hebdo published caricatures of the prophet Muhammad.

by Katrin on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 05:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
does the vatican still require women to wear hats or headscarves when they enter it ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They require you to not wear t-shirt and shorts. Or at least they did a decade ago when I last checked. (No, nobody in our group tried taking off their t-shirt and shorts and rules lawyer about it - the gorillas looked like their sense of humor had been surgically removed.)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't have to go back very far in time in the West to find examples where women were expected to wear hats, gloves, long sleeves, etc. in formal situations. It's amusing that some people think they can instantly drag the MIddle East (or anywhere else) out of, say, 1300 AD into taking a 2012 urban Western moral viewpoint--when much of rural America and, I presume, Europe, has views closer to 1300 than 2012.
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vienna to use public defibrillators to fight heart attacks - FRANCE 24

Vienna will introduce 60 public defibrillators around the city over the coming months, in a bid to save lives by promoting quicker first aid in the event of a heart attack, authorities said Thursday.

Over 10,000 people die every year in Austria following cardiac arrest.

"There's only one mistake you can make, that's to do nothing," Harry Kopietz, head of the regional parliament and president of the association Puls, which is backing the project, told journalists.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can already find these in some parts of the UK.

Do people know what to do with them? I imagine everyone has seen the TV shows, but is that really how they're supposed to be used?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:15:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Procedure for the new "public" ones tend to be
  • attach pads to chestal area
  • switch on machine
  • sit back and wait

The monitoring is built in and the machine makes the decision whether to "apply current" or not.

Having the public use the ER/crash cart version wihtout training would probably ... I don't know ... hilarity ensues, if you're lucky.


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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:35:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the UK at least, they are supplied to various public places (including shopping centres etc.) by the NHS along with training for a minimum of 3 staff members. The newer ones are basically self-running via an algorithm, you just put the sticky bits on the electrodes and put them in the right place and push the button.

(The training is mostly about putting the electrodes in the right place. And not touching it while in action.)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:38:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not likely to end well...
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've had those for years in Denmark. If they had been a total catastrophe, they would presumably have been removed by now.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Denmark is civilized, though.

I can't wait until they put them in my town. There are all sorts of fun things you can do with the innards.

by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure they will squawk some sort of distress code if you remove them, though. That would make sense, since you're only supposed to remove them when somebody is twitching on the ground.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 01:27:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The police response time here would allow a leisurely walk home with the goods with no danger of apprehension...
by asdf on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 03:35:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
`No French investigation' into runaway British schoolgirl - UK-FRANCE - FRANCE 24

The French authorities are not investigating the disappearance of a 15-year-old British schoolgirl who ran away with her maths teacher last week because she is over the legal age of consent in France.

Megan Stammers, from Sussex in southeast England, and her teacher Jeremy Forrest, 30, were caught on CCTV on the cross-channel ferry from Dover to Calais in northern France last Thursday.

And while a major investigation is under way in the UK, Sussex police confirmed that Stammers' disappearance was not being treated the same way in France because the couple have not broken any French laws.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 04:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What ? Sex with a 15 yr old is legal in france ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:12:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, apparently so. Well, I've always thought consent laws should have an age differential component. A 15 and 16 year old is cool, but a 15 and a 30 year old is definitely not

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Denmark, there is no age differential, but there is a clause about asymmetric power relationships, under which the age of consent goes up (from 15 to 18).

So it would be illegal in Denmark because he's her teacher, not because he's twice her age.

(In practice, there's also an informal age differential rule, in that nobody is ever going to actually prosecute a 14/16 relationship, but a 14/20 one might be and a 14/30 one definitely would be.)

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:18:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not much different here. Rightly so, because 15 year olds don't need to be protected from sex with adults, but they need to be protected from exploitative relationships.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:00:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That seems a lot more sensible than a simple birthday-based cutoff.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:19:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
15 is the age of consent to sexual relations in France, no matter what the age of the partner.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:03:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is sort of how it works here. But the rules are so complicated that nobody really worries about it. Besides, what are you supposed to do, validate government-issued ID paperwork before going on a date?
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it weird that I think this table looks like something out of a 1980's role-playing game?

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sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Consexual sex rules

Make an opposed age roll: each player rolls 5d20. Then look on the encounter table to see how many Cops materialise. NC means 'no cops'. 1M means one municipal cop. 4F means four federal cops. Look in the critters appendix for cop stats.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
L'enseignant et l'adolescente britanniques en fuite ont été retrouvés à Bordeaux Runaway British teacher and teenager found in Bordeaux
L'affaire qui passionne la presse britannique (The Sun, The Guardian ou encore The Mirror, qui a ouvert un suivi en direct) depuis une semaine vient de trouver son épilogue. Les amours interdites de l'enseignant et de l'adolescente britanniques qui étaient en fuite depuis le 20 septembre ont été interceptées vendredi 28 septembre dans le centre-ville de Bordeaux. Le professeur, âgé de 30 ans, a aussitôt été placé en garde à vue.
The case the British press has been full of for a week (The Sun, The Guardian or The Mirror, which is live monitoring) has reached its end. The forbidden love of the British teacher and teenager who had been on the run since September 20 was intercepted Friday, September 28 in the city centre of Bordeaux. The teacher, aged 30, was immediately taken into custody.
"On a retrouvé le couple sur la voie publique dans le centre de Bordeaux", a indiqué la police judiciaire, ajoutant que Megan, la mineure de 15 ans qui avait fugué avec son professeur, était "en bonne santé". Jeremy Forrest, marié, 30 ans, enseignant de mathématiques, contre lequel un mandat d'arrêt européen avait été émis, a été placé en garde à vue dans les locaux du commissariat de Bordeaux. "We found the couple on the street in the center of Bordeaux" , said the police, adding that Megan, the minor of 15 years who had run away with her teacher was "in good health" . Jeremy Forrest, married, 30, a mathematics teacher, had a European arrest warrant taken out against him. He was placed in custody in the main police station in Bordeaux.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:19:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In view of the above, it's clear the French police was tracking them, not in conformity with French law on sexual relations, but a European arrest warrant.

Which makes FRANCE 24 look like a British outlet whining about the French police yet again.

FRANCE 24 is such rubbish.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:23:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The article notes this :
Le parquet a souligné que la justice française n'était pas chargée du fond de l'affaire, mais seulement de l'exécution du mandat d'arrêt européen émis par les autorités britanniques à l'encontre de M. Forrest. Ce mandat devrait être examiné dans les vingt-quatre heures par le parquet général de Bordeaux. La police du Sussex (sud de l'Angleterre) a de son côté indiqué dans un communiqué que M. Forrest était suspecté d'enlèvement d'enfant.

The French police merely executed the European arrest warrant, which is apparently for child kidnapping. Which seems preposterous on its face.

The article also notes that there is a law on the books in France against sex with a minor over 15 involving abuse of authority, which would seem to apply to this case.

Don't stand... don't stand so... don't stand so close to me, etc

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:47:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard: Europe's betrayal of Spain (Daily Telegraph, September 27th, 2012)
Today [Rajoy] will announce a fresh round of austerity measures to meet EU targets that cannot be met, adhering to reactionary strategy of "internal devaluation" imposed by Germany that is destroying his country.

And now he has just been betrayed by the German bloc anyway. Es el colmo. If he were to request full sovereign rescue, he would most likely be shafted again. Who can blame him for dragging his feet?

The temptation to tell the Germans and Dutch to go to Hell - and to pull the pin on their banking systems - must be growing mightily. Desperate men do desperate things.

I don't think there's a single line in the analysis that I'd object to.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 27th, 2012 at 06:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it odd how the insanity of Europe's leaders has made people like AEP much more on target?

<sigh>

Question is, is rebelling even possible in Rajoy's belief system?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:43:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
these leaders are chosen because their belief systems are dependably carved in basalt.

TINA...

down they go, new acolytes always ready to jump in the ring with fresh versions of the old lies.

all thumbs in a dike anyway...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The economic right wing is fuming at what they see as Rajoy's incompetence.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is rebelling even possible in Rajoy's belief system?

Never. Rebelling is do something, decide something.

by PerCLupi on Sat Sep 29th, 2012 at 02:40:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
opposed on the ideological spectrum can all agree on one thing, the Euro project is a bust, and can not hold.

Now, we wait for events to unfold as the elites cling to their fantasies, delaying the inevitable and in so doing making the inevitable all the more painful.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:44:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EILMELDUNG: Steinbrück wird Kanzlerkandidat der SPD - Politik - FAZ
Die Frage, mit wem die Sozialdemokraten im Herbst 2013 gegen Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel (CDU) in den Wahlkampf ziehen, ist entschieden: Der frühere Finanzminister Peer Steinbrück wird Kanzlerkandidat der SPD.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:54:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Krugman blog: The economic consequences of Herr Steinbrueck (December 11, 2008)
There's an extraordinary -- and extraordinarily depressing -- interview in Newsweek with Peer Steinbrueck, the Germany finance minister. The world economy is in a terrifying nosedive, visible everywhere. Yet Mr. Steinbrueck is standing firm against any extraordinary fiscal measures, and denounces Gordon Brown for his "crass Keynesianism."

...

The reason is that the European economy is so integrated: European countries on average spend around a quarter of their GDP on imports from each other. Since imports tend to rise or fall faster than GDP during a business cycle, this probably means that something like 40 percent of any change in final demand "leaks" across borders within Europe. As a result, the multiplier on fiscal policy within any given European country is much less than the multiplier on a coordinated fiscal expansion. And that in turn means that the tradeoff between deficits and supporting the economy in a time of trouble is much less favorable for any one European country than for Europe as a whole.

...

In short, there's a huge multiplier effect at work; unfortunately, what it's doing is multiplying the impact of the current German government's boneheadedness.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I doubt that these elections will bring much surprise. Steinbrück will become vice-chancellor in a grand coalition.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And so the SPD will be destroyed as a fighting force for the following elections, which Merkel will win. Then she will lead a Black-Green coalition until 2021.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unless the aliens come and take her back to her home planet.

They can have Paul Ryan back while they're at it.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the SPD will be destroyed, period.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:45:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The SPD will move to the right, which should strengthen Die Linke, unless Die Linke fucks it up terribly (sigh. It's not improbable). This will not kill the SPD, though. The example of Hamburg has proved that a black and green coalition is a disaster for both partners (and for the city). We won't see a repetition of that, I think. More likely grand coalitions forever.
by Katrin on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:03:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurointelligence Daily Morning Newsbriefing: Weidmann seeks to sabotage banking union (28.09.2012)
Bundesbank president insists that any bank legacy problems must remain the liability of national regulatory regimes; says anything else - i.e. the explicit commitment by the eurozone summit in June to separate banking and sovereign risks - constituted a financial transfer; Weidmann also says bank supervision will destroy the ECB's independence and deflect from its price stability goal; the coalition majority also asked the government to ensure that legacy risks are not covered by a banking union; the Spanish cabinet passed the 2013 budget with the ludicrously optimistic assumption of a GDP fall of only 0.5%; measures include a cash-for-clunkers scheme, and loads of new taxes; Mariano Rajoy said he would only apply for a programme if interest rates were too high for too long; he describes Spain's predicament as a "fascinating situation"; an FT editorial says Spain should apply for a bailout immediately, but says eurozone imperatives may be inconsistent with Spanish politics; Ambrose Evans-Pritchard sees a German betrayal of Spain; the capital flight from Spain intensified during August; the eurozone economic outlook deteriorated further in September, according to the latest confidence survey by the European Commission; ECB data show a big contraction of lending to households; Reuters has the ESM guidelines, indicating the lending margins - with no discrimination between countries, only instruments; there are renewed signs that Mario Monti may end up heading the next Italian government - if there is no clear winner; 46% of young Italians are economically inactive; Berlusconi describes the euro as a con, and calls on the ECB to print more money; the Greek coalition agreed on a €13.5bn austerity package, with €10.5bn in savings, and the remainder in higher taxes; most of the savings come from cuts to wages, benefits and pensions; Jean-Marc Ayrault stands by his 2013 growth and deficit forecasts ahead of today's presentation of the budget; in Austria, meanwhile, a eurosceptic billionaire has launched his parliamentary campaign, with a big boost from the polls.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
when even Berlusconi makes sense:
Berlusconi attacks the Euro again

Silvio Berlusconi has called the Euro a "con," Il Fatto Quotidiano reports. He called the converion rate of 1,927 lire to the euro suicide. Due to its past, Germany is blocking every plan to save Eurozone with a monetary base increase. "The Bundesbank and Merkel have their roots in the terror of inflation," and because of this the only mandate of the ECB is that of fighting inflation. According to Berlusconi, Eurozone has two ways: the first is to start the money printing machine, the second is consider a German exit from Eurozone if Berlin continues to oppose the ECB as lender of last resort. "Germany is killing Italy, but also Eurozone," he added.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlu will say anything in order to weasel his way back into power. Beware.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:23:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurosceptic billionaire starts Austrian election campaign

Eurosceptic auto parts magnate Frank Stronach launched his Austrian election campaign on Thursday, presenting himself as an honest man of the people to a public tired of corrupt politicians and hungry for change, Reuters reports. Despite a lack of clear policies and confusion over his attitude to the crisis-hit euro, 40% of Austrians already want to see Stronach's party - Team Stronach - in the next coalition government, according to a survey published in Der Standard. Recent polls show that Stronach would be the first choice of around 10% of Austrian voters, mainly at the expense of former supporters of the far-right Freedom Party and the alternative Pirate Party, which attracts a protest vote. Stronach reiterated his call for giving each member of the euro zone its "own" currency whose value would fluctuate in line with its fiscal and financial strength. He emphasised that as a child of war he was in favour of a united Europe to maintain peace on the continent, but would resist being dictated to by Brussels, Washington, Beijing, Moscow or anyone else.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 05:28:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently he collected three parliamentarians of Haider's old outfit and one from the Social Democrats.
The official launch mostly consisted of him talking a lot.

Pros: He blames the banks bad investments and not lazy southerners. "Angela Merkel is either utterly stupid or in cahoots with the banks", "What is being forced on Greece..".
He is in favour of an orderly disintegration of the Eurozone, which compares favourably with the current policy of years of depression followed by disorderly collapse. No outright bashing of poor people as far as I can see.

Cons: Utter ignorance of Macroeconomics. "For 50 years we have been making losses" The pension system is supposedly close to collapse because of state debt. Also Bureaucracy!1!eleven. The state as a corporation.

Notes: He may not be a bad sort for douchey rich people but he is very old and his ego is the size of Jupiter. That is not a good combination and I give him about a 50% chance to crash and burn before the election.

by generic on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:53:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters (via Chicago Tribune): Bank union won't absorb old risks: ECB's Weidmann (September 27, 2012)
"Anything else would be a financial transfer and those should be made transparent and not hidden under the cloak of a banking union," he said. "The primary goal of a banking union cannot be the sharing of risks."

Earlier this week, a deep divide opened between the bloc's fiscal conservatives - Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, and Finland - and its more needy partners when the four nations said that a clear line needed to be drawn between new and "legacy" difficulties that could be shouldered by the euro zone's permanent rescue fund, the ESM.

The new position, which appeared to unravel much of the bank recapitalization plans agreed at the last European summit in June, made it clear that highly indebted banks in Spain, Ireland and Greece will remain the responsibility of those countries' governments.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:32:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

  • "We can have a banking union, but it mustn't be a banking union!"

  • "I will not allow my central bank to perform a primary function of a central bank."

  • "I refuse to solve this problem!"


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i am extremely well remunerated to reiterate insane drivel until i disappear below the waves.

a titanic orchestra, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, gurgle gurgle...

it also reminds me of someone holding two shorting cables in their hand and the juice paralysing their nervous system.

one cable being the 'markets' (those b-a-d speculators, gambling for the shirt off europe's back, and cog-diss alert the other cable being that these scary scary 'market forces' are nothing more than granma's portfolio managers trying to keep her savings from becoming extinct!)

it's the same fucking money, but instead of going round and round, the institutions are creaming so much off the top and being fear-based anal retentives, are hoarding offshore. it's all reactionary, reflexive.

this farce cannot but further descend into tragedy, unless the blocks and backchannels are removed and money can serve its proper function by circulating within the financial system, all the way through down to the bottom where it's most needed.

too many clever-clever monkey games.

so totally unnecessary for a sane society, useless as tits on a bull...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 04:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Briefly : 30 billion euros of deficit reduction, which is alleged to bring the deficit back to 3% in 2013 (based on the absurd premise of 0.8% economic growth).

  • 10 billion in spending cuts
  • 10 billion from business, mostly in eliminating tax exemptions for big companies
  • 10 billion from households, of which 6.2 billion from the richest.


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:17:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Briefly : 30 billion euros of deficit reduction, which is alleged to bring the deficit back to 3% in 2013 (based on the absurd premise of 0.8% economic growth).
<sob>

The Eurozone's giant sucking sound (28.08.2012)

If Eurozone countries (except Germany) have a persistent current account deficit averaging close to 3% (and, on current trends, soon to exceed it), and at the same time the government deficit must remain below 3%, it becomes mathematically impossible for the Eurozone private sector (outside Germany) to net-save. This is unsustainable, because if the private sector is dissaving eventually it will become insolvent.

Take, for example, France:

If France were to bring its Government deficit below 3%, it would destroy the ability of the French private sector to net-save, assuming the current account deficit stays on trend (and it should: Germany's 6% current account surplus is as stable as if it were a successful policy target, and the Eurozone's neutral current account balance is consistent with the ECB pursuing a non-interventionistic foreign reserve policy).



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 06:32:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if we are in a liquidity trap, do we really want the private sector to be in a net save position?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:01:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Doesn't matter what we want. We are in a liquidity trap (as the not-quite-Keynesians call it) because the private sector is in a position of enforced saving.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 08:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In a balance sheet recession, the private sector cannot avoid striving for a large net saving position, because the alternative is immediate insolvency.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:48:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
large segments (corporations) in the private sector are hoarding cash?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:58:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That follows from the widespread private sector insolvency. They're holding cash to meet margin calls and because there's no productive use for that cash when there is no demand for product.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:25:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well in that case, since no one wants to print money in the Buba, wouldn't it be better if the government got that cash instead of it sitting in the hands of those segments of the private sector who have it?

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:36:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if we trust said government to spend it?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends on which sorts of firms have it, and the term structure of their liabilities.

It is entirely conceivable, in a situation such as the present, that a firm we would like to keep existing would hold cash or cash-equivalent assets to meet future payments due. Because they can neither be certain that they can roll over their liability, nor that any non-cash asset will be not-toilet-paper by the time they need to make payment.

Basically, it only makes sense to take the cash away if there are no short- or medium-term liabilities that the cash will be needed to meet, or if you can guarantee that those liabilities will be rolled over (which you can't, because the BuBa has its thumb up its ass).

Or if you think the company in question should be taken out back and shot on general principles. Which is, of course, the case for some companies.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ulrike Guérot: Germany in Europe: What Germany expects from France (28th September 2012)
Secondly, the Germans are wondering when France will start listening to (and answering) the German discussion about political union. Germans have understood that France is still hoping for Eurobonds - within the next five years - as French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici recently restated in London - and Germans are trying to argue that these will not be `for free' but require a different set up of European democracy.  

In this respect, it was interesting to listen to Karine Berger, a member of parliament for the French Socialists, this week at a conference on European democracy and the way out of the crisis organised by the Heinrich Böll Foundation. In a panel discussion, Mme Berger stated repeatedly that she does not believe the euro has much chance of surviving if the eurozone does not ultimately enter a debt community and create Eurobonds. In essence, I agree. She said that if this does not happen, there would not be a common solution to the euro crisis. For the rest of the world, Mme. Berger continued, the currency union wouldn't exist anyway, as interests rates vary greatly again. If there is no debt community, there is no budgetary union and the euro would be finished. However, a budgetary union cannot exist without parliamentary control. Europe cannot take parliamentary control over budgets away at the national level and give it to non-parliamentary (and therefore non-democratic) institutions on the European level. So far, so good, and again I agree. But then the discussion touched on the point of the current Franco-German misunderstanding: when the moderator questioned her deeper about European parliamentary control, she answered that, indeed, the right of the EP to oversee the budget must be strengthened - but she meant the EU budget.

Germans however, are currently having a discussion on the topic and are mostly arguing that a debt community would necessitate common parliamentary control on the European level (however this might be organised), about national budgets, including, as van Rompuy's  report on a genuine banking union also requests, the introduction of a `budgetary ceiling' which ought to be under European and preferably parliamentary control.  This is probably also what ECB president Mario Draghi meant by the condition of `budgetary oversight' that he mentioned in his speech in Berlin this week at the Annual Conference of the German Industrial Association, BDI, though he did not provide an answer as to how this could and should be organised. Germans are having an intense discussion about how it could be organised. One idea is to create a Eurozone parliament, which would satisfy the requirements of parliamentary legitimacy and therefore qualify as a body for collective decision-making on both the discretionary spending of the Eurozone and the oversight of national budgetary ceilings. French ideas on this would be welcome, but they would need to go beyond strengthening the rights of the EP concerning its own budget.

With lots, lots of links.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
on how revenues from capital will be submitted to the same tax regime as revenues from labor. Devil is gonna be in the details I suspect.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill
by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:54:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in 2013. Clearly, the Socialists have no intention of hitting the 3% target, as this is an absolutely unrealistic forecast they are pinning their budget to.

A big gamble, with a big press conference and P/R to go along with it, but one wonders what will be the next moves expected once it becomes clear that the 3% target will not in fact be reached.

It's a matter of months, at best, that this becomes clear, and then, Holland's gamble to punt the issue down the road will start showing whether ultimately it pays off or it does not.

I for one am pessimistic.

The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet. Winston Churchill

by r------ on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The game seems to be : OK we'll pretend to buy the Austerian lunacy that we can cut our way to growth. Then, when we've missed the 3% target because of the lack of growth, (and Spain etc likewise) then the Germans will be ready for some expansionary policies.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a plan or a punt?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:17:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Le Parisien: L'incroyable histoire de la naissance des 3% de déficit (28.09.2012)
Ce haut fonctionnaire, Guy Abeille, l'avoue aujourd'hui : les 3 %, inventés en une heure un soir de juin 1981, ne reposaient sur aucune théorie économique mais, pour cette raison sans doute, il convint parfaitement à François Mitterrand, qui avait exigé, pour faire barrage à ses ministres trop dépensiers, un chiffre rond et facile à retenir. Et voici comment le fondement de notre politique budgétaire, imposé comme une règle d'airain à toute l'Europe, a vu le jour... au doigt mouillé.
The Incredible Story of the Birth of the 3% Deficit
This high functionary, Guy Abeille, confesses today: the 3%, invented in an hour one evening in June 1981, did not rest on any economic theory but, no doubt for this very reason, it was perfectly convenient for François Mitterrand, qho had demanded, to rein in his spendthrift ministers, a round number easy to remember. Behold how the foundation of our budget policy, imposed as an iron rule on all of Europe, saw the light of day... with a finger in the air.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:00:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(I should read more French.)

Finger in the air indeed.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:37:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The expression "au doigt mouillé" means testing for wind direction by sticking up a wet finger.

In this case, sticking up where might be interesting to know.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:31:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was at a loss translating that. How would you have done it?

Maybe "how [it] saw the light of day... out of their sleeve/thin air/their arse"?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I regularly hear native (UK) colleagues say "finger in the air", so that's probably the best translation for the expression by itself.

In context I (not a native speaker) would say "out of thin air" is the best current phrase and fits with the rest of the sentence.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:54:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, it's not easy to translate.

By rule of thumb?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:39:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Otherwise it evokes for me the alternative French expression "à vue de nez" (colloquially "au pif"), that is, in Occitan/Catalan "a vista de nas" and in Castilian (I think) "a vista de nariz".

But English doesn't use noses like that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:43:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there's some method to the madness in the case of 'a rule of thumb', which is not the case with a licked finger in the wind.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
F*$!
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:48:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, really!

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:24:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess we should be grateful that the didn't pick 0%...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:54:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Presseurop: The secret of 3% finally revealed (28 September 2012)
Guy Abeille, age 62, a former senior Budget Ministry official and "the inventor of the concept, endlessly repeated by all governments whether of the right or the left, that the public deficit should not exceed 3% of the national wealth," told the newspaper -
We came up with the 3% figure in less than an hour. It was a back of an envelope calculation, without any theoretical reflection. Mitterrand needed an easy rule that he could deploy in his discussions with ministers who kept coming into his office to demand money. [...] We needed something simple. 3%? It was a good number that had stood the test of time, somewhat reminiscent of the Trinity.
The daily remarks on the strange character of this anecdote: "In an irony of history, the technocrats in Brussels drew on the legendary 3% for inspiration when creating another rule [stipulated by the new Fiscal Compact], just as factitiously Cartesian, which obliges states to limit their structural deficits to 0.5%. Why not 1% or 2% ? No one really knows."


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 09:28:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We needed something simple. 3%? It was a good number that had stood the test of time, somewhat reminiscent of the Trinity.

Just wow.
There is material here for several books on political theory, sociology, anthropology ...

The wikipedia article on Abeille links to this from 2010:
Pourquoi le déficit à 3% du PIB est une invention 100%... française

J'en viens au seuil magique - pour un peu, chamanique - du déficit à 3% du PIB.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 10:56:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking of the Trinity...

Look at that effort of thirty billion euros of debt reduction in the French budget (nice round number!)

  • 10 billion in spending cuts (the father?)
  • 10 billion from business (the son?)
  • 10 billion from households (holy moley!)


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 11:00:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do we pay these people again?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 12:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's sometimes cheaper to pay them directly than to have them form think tanks.

(Not always, so remember to ask me about each case individually.)

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 03:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An American strategic analyst I met briefly at a conference way back in Copenhagen insisted that 3.18 was a magic number of stability in 'economics': he had some algorithm based on sustainable growth, paying down debt through inflation and the fact that 3.18% growth would represent a doubling in 22 years i.e. a generation.  He never once mentioned chaos theory, but (and here I am open to brickbats) in complex dynamic systems there does appear to be algorithmic significance.

I'm not impressed by generational theories since the birth rate in most societies is fairly stable during a couple of decades. 'Generation' as in 'Talking about my...'. Generations continuously overlap, but the major phenomena that influence the culture of a society (pan-generationally): Depression, WWII, the Beatles, Thatcher, or whatever, do have an impact/aftermath that is maintained within a certain period (22 years?), after which the phenomena tend to become museified.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
22 years i.e. a generation

Yeah, and 22 = 2*11.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shall leave others to point out the significance of fractal dimensions - it's beyond my pay grade.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which goes to prove all even numbers can be derived as the sum of two primes.


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do not drink and derive.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Algorithm:  A process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations

The canonical definition of the Mandlebrot Set:

Is an algorithm.  

So is the Feigenbaum Function.  But whether one "gets" this:

this:

or this:

depends on one's interpretive stance.

[Note:  the last is a sculpture presented to Dr. Feigenbaum by Stephen Wolfram.]

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:41:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's good to know that obfuscational colleagues can rise to the occasion ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not as such:

ABSTRACT. We provide a definition of an attractor to a multivalued iterated function system (IFS) modelled on previous ones existing in the literature (e.g. [Hale, J. K.: Asymptotic Behavior of Dissipative Systems. Math. Surveys Monographs 25, Amer. Math. Soc, Providence, RI, 1988]). Such an attractor expressing asymptotic behaviour of a system does not need to be invariant. Then, as a remedy there serves the uniform Hausdorff upper semicontinuity It was recently shown that condensing multifunctions possess a maximal invariant set which is
compact. The theorem ensuring the existence of attractors considered here also exploits compactness-like hypothesis slightly stronger than condensity, namely contractivity with respect to measure of noncompactness. Hence contractivity in measure and uniform Hausdorff upper semicontinuity together do guarantee existence of a compact attractor which is maximal invariant and unique. We also supply examples (e.g. unbounded attractor) and state further questions.

:-þ
pfffffffttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:03:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shall introduce you to my friends in Finland as a nutter. It's expected of me.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nutter?  Not as such.  I very seldom go gathering nuts.

I prefer to think of myself as one who works on the leading edge, expanding the boundaries of what is possible with human/cybernetic Information Systems:



She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 02:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Italian seismologists could get four years for incorrect earthquake prediction - CSMonitor.com

According to prosecutors, the six researchers and the Department of Civil Protection downplayed the likelihood that a series of tremors that hit the city in early 2009 were foreshadowing a larger quake. On April 6, 2009, a magnitude-6.3 earthquake killed 309 city residents.

The trial, which began about a year ago, has worried scientists, who point out that earthquake prediction is not possible. But prosecutors insist that the trial is not about predicting the unpredictable, according to Nature News. During closing arguments on Monday and Tuesday (Sept. 24-25), the prosecution assistant told the courtroom that instead, the scientists and officials had inadequately assessed the risk of a quake and given deceptive information to the public.



'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Harsh, dude.
Get ready for weekly 7.0 predictions everywhere.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 07:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There"s a long list of climate change deniers that could be in trouble...
by asdf on Fri Sep 28th, 2012 at 01:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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