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Presumably he means the French part of France. In Alsace-Moselle there is no such separation, with the old German law still applicable (I think to the point of the German text being the binding version).
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 03:50:13 AM EST
Yes, I pointed out in the previous thread that priests are still on the government payroll there; this being a historical oddity (there are also differences in the social welfare regime) related to repeated 19th and 20th century border adjustment. In general I'm all in favour of colourful regional specificities, but if the 21st century turns out to be religious, as Malraux allegedly predicted, then it's more of a worrying precedent.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 04:16:43 AM EST
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In Spain, the government pays "religion" [Catholic, of course] teachers' wages in the public school system, but the Conference of Bishops hires and fires them.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 04:46:49 AM EST
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But this is a result of the existence of a "Concordat" between "the Spanish State" and "the Vatican State".

It's slightly alien to the concepts of "secularization", "secular society (or non denominational policy)" and "freedom of conscience".

by PerCLupi on Thu Sep 6th, 2012 at 12:48:19 AM EST
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The Concordat is the typical form European Catholic countries' lack of separation between Church and State takes.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 6th, 2012 at 01:54:34 AM EST
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Don't talk about the "French part of France" in Alsace-Moselle. People there feel French, have fought to be French, and don't like it when it looks like they are being called traitors and inferior citizens as their Frenchness is somehow contested...

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 06:00:52 AM EST
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I don't usually talk like that, but since I was specifically referring to the fact that they still have German laws, it seemed appropriate. If they feel so strongly about it, why don't they adopt French laws?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 06:05:02 AM EST
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The best of two worlds.

After the first world war there demands of autonomy in alsace. French but different. They had a certain degree of autonomy in the late german period.

There was also this after the second world war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malgré-nous

Now that has abated because of the passage of time and the general decentralisation of France.

by IM on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 06:23:22 AM EST
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There is actually a wikipedia article on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_law_in_Alsace-Moselle

by IM on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 06:26:56 AM EST
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Interesting that the main difference is that preserving the power of the church.

Now I can sit back and watch the rest of you add 500 comments....

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 06:37:47 AM EST
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Speaking of Germany, the back-and-forth development with regards to the separation of state and church there has to do with multiple religions (or sects if you will). Bismarck's Prussia was dominated by Lutherans, and as Prussia and its power grew, there was conflict with the ever more Catholic subjects and, more importantly, the Vatican. So the separation of state and church was launched by the Lutherna conservative elite to curb the Vatican's influence (this was the original Kulturkampf). However, eventually, the Catholics won overhand on the conservative side (Hitler came from the Catholic south too), and their party, the Centre Party, which started as Bismarck's most potent opposition, was then the main root of the West German CDU, which did it best to lessen the separation of church and state.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 08:59:56 AM EST
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