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Remember that while separation of church and state in the US founding was similar to the Bismarkian secularism ~ denominations dominating different states thinking they were safer from being on the losing end if no establishment religion was allowed ~ there was also a strand in the separation of church and state which supported it as much to protect churches from the corrupting influence of being the state church as to protect the state from being dominated by religion.

There's a twin movement in weakening the religious hold on society under an establishment church, in that the establishment church works to undermine the strength of rival churches, and being the establishment church tends to weaken the appeal of the establishment church over the long term.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 01:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is also the point that a state church's ability to maintain ideological coherence suffers from the interpenetration of church and government bureaucracies. If it does single-issue advocacy the way it would if it were a fully independent organization, it risks being defeated and captured in internal bureaucratic battles in the government. And if it does not do single-issue advocacy, it loses internal cohesion and risks being captured piecemeal.

Unless, of course, the church takes marching orders from a hostile transnational corporation, as the Church of Happyology and parts of the Catholic Church do.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 03:18:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That not an "also", its part of one of the points originally arguing for the establishment clause of the Bill of Rights: that's part of the process of corruption in "protect churches from the corrupting influence of being the state church".

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 03:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is a third prong to the twin movement in weakening the religious hold on society under an establishment church.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 03:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, yes, if you count from one to three skipping two ... its a big chunk of the second prong.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Sep 5th, 2012 at 06:13:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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