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When it comes to the driving force here, I would say it is the wish among the EUropean political and economical elite to visit some shock doctrine on the population. The purpose with destroying the safety nets in Greece are the same as they were in Chile, in Poland, in Russia and everywhere else the shock doctrine has been applied: a radical economic transformation of society that benefits a local and international elite (division of spoils is a question of power relations). It is in turn driven by a combination of personal interest, class interest and misguided idealism (reforms are necessary, strenghten competetivness etc). Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
I would say it is the wish among the EUropean political and economical elite to visit some shock doctrine on the population.
That doesn't say much for the success of the European experiment. Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Or is borrowing from a German bank and not repaying euivalent to a "sin" in the scripture according to Merkel?
That might make a good tag line ;) Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
What is Debt? - An Interview with Economic Anthropologist David Graeber « naked capitalism
In Sanskrit, Hebrew, Aramaic, `debt,' `guilt,' and `sin' are actually the same word. Much of the language of the great religious movements - reckoning, redemption, karmic accounting and the like - are drawn from the language of ancient finance
Of course, there is also the UK, which is not in the eurozone, where austerity cannot be attributed to language. Why do, you think the UK government has gone there? Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
France is as committed to fixed exchange rates as Germany is. During the previous Great Depression, France was the last Western European country to abandon the gold standard. France precipitated the end of Bretton Woods by sending a warship to Fort Knox to repatriate their gold. For 20 years after Bretton Woods, France preferred a fixed exchange rate system with periodic devaluations to floating exchange rates. French politicians spearheaded the Euro - Germany had to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. France allegedly introduced the 3% deficit and 60% debt limits in the Maastricht Treaty, and had no objection to introducing the German prohibition of monetary financing as a bargaining concession to the German sensitivities.
Tell me again how it would all be different if France called the shots? I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
his government was committed to destroying the solvency of the French private sector.
Why do you say that?
Migeru:
Now that they have plunged France into a recession
France has been in recession for a lot longer than the last eight monts. Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
Migeru:[Hollande']s government was committed to destroying the solvency of the French private sector.Why do you say that?
[Hollande']s government was committed to destroying the solvency of the French private sector.
Take, for example, France: If France were to bring its Government deficit below 3%, it would destroy the ability of the French private sector to net-save, assuming the current account deficit stays on trend (and it should: Germany's 6% current account surplus is as stable as if it were a successful policy target, and the Eurozone's neutral current account balance is consistent with the ECB pursuing a non-interventionistic foreign reserve policy).
If France were to bring its Government deficit below 3%, it would destroy the ability of the French private sector to net-save, assuming the current account deficit stays on trend (and it should: Germany's 6% current account surplus is as stable as if it were a successful policy target, and the Eurozone's neutral current account balance is consistent with the ECB pursuing a non-interventionistic foreign reserve policy).
If your argument is that France is and has always considered itself central to the "European project", that is not debatable. If you are saying France = Germany, no difference, then that is debatable.
The major (i.e., policy relevant) macroeconomic strains of thought today, Aust(e)rianism, Keynesianism and Monetarism originated in Continental Europe, Britain and the US respectively. That should tell us something: Continental Europe is the home of harebrained "common sense" economics.
Yes, France had the Physiocrats, Italy has been big in Chartalism/Circuitism, there are Marxian economists all over Europe. I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
A second point is that, if "sound money" goes way back, the precise project of a single currency in Europe dates practically speaking from the demise of Bretton Woods, and claims (at least the legend does) a U Chicago Canadian as its "father", Robert Mundell.
Mundell: OPTIMUM CURRENCY AREAS
It was with great regret that I felt compelled to distance myself on this basic policy issue from teachers and good friends like James Meade, Milton Friedman, Harry Johnson, Gottfried Haberler, Fritz Machlup, Lloyd Metzler and Arnold Harberger and others who supported flexible exchange rates. I found myself among such diverse company as Lord Robbins, Sir Roy Harrod, Jacques Rueff, Edward Bernstein, Robert Triffin, Otmar Emminger, Rinaldo Ossola, Charles Kindleberger, Guido Carli and Robert Roosa--and some of them would later become defectors. Of course I was happy to be in the company of all the great economists of the past who, with the possible exceptions of Fisher and Keynes, were vigorously opposed to flexible exchange rates between countries with inconvertible currencies.
Among the supporters of flexible exchange rates were a couple of Austrians (Haberler and Machlup). Among the fixed-rate crowd, a couple of Brits and an American.
So De Gaulle held to gold convertibility. The Bretton Woods system was, after all, gold-based.
I listed de Gaulle because of the Empty-Chair crisis (as evidence that France does call the shots - our own Jerome never tires to remind us that the day France threatens to pull out of the EU, Germany will fold again)
I listed Pompidou because of the end of Bretton Woods (with the gold repatriation) I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
That's my original point; if Hollande has the cajones to do so. Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
As for France having been, especially in the years of the Six and then Ten, an obvious major power if not the major power in the "European project", I'm not attempting to deny it.
the dollar was supposed to be convertible.
Well, if you have a Gold Standard, sound money is the lay of the land... as in the Eurozone today. I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
under the gold standard America had no major financial panics other than in 1873, 1884, 1890, 1893, 1907, 1930, 1931, 1932, and 1933
Why is,it continuing these policies in spite of the fact that the seem not to be working?
The UK has gone the Austerity way because of common sense conservative economics.
The Euro crisis has nothing to do with common sense conservative economics? Practically all Europe is run by conservatives.
France is as committed to fixed exchange rates as Germany is.
France is, and has been for forty years, committed to a single currency. Germany is committed to fixed exchange rates. That may only be a nuance, but possibly a considerable one.
France was the last Western European country to abandon the gold standard. France precipitated the end of Bretton Woods by sending a warship to Fort Knox to repatriate their gold.
France was as gold-standard-convinced as many other countries and wasn't all that exceptional. De Gaulle in particular, as an old conservative, held unthinkingly to the standard conservative dogma on sound money and gold, and it was he who decided on the symbolic gesture of sending a naval vessel to New Jersey, because he loved nothing better than pissing off the US. All this doesn't amount to making France Austrian.
For 20 years after Bretton Woods, France
...adopted the single European currency as its policy and supported the different attempts at bringing currencies into line to create it.
Germany had to be dragged into it kicking and screaming
West Germany would rather have kept the Deutschemark. Again, a nuance that may be considerable.
France allegedly introduced the 3% deficit and 60% debt limits in the Maastricht Treaty
It appears French technocrats invented the actual numbers involved, but not that France spearheaded the principle itself. Indeed, it is reported the numbers were just pulled out of the air in a frivolous way, as if the French didn't expect them ever to be applied.
had no objection to introducing the German prohibition of monetary financing as a bargaining concession to the German sensitivities
It seems unlikely that any party would "have no objection" to what is seen as a "bargaining concession".
None of the above is meant as a defence of French policy re the single currency, which has mostly been a tale of foolishness and wishful thinking across the political spectrum. The single currency has been a will o' the wisp leading France into the morass.
Migeru:The UK has gone the Austerity way because of common sense conservative economics.The Euro crisis has nothing to do with common sense conservative economics? Practically all Europe is run by conservatives.
In the UK, you have an insane government, against which are arrayed the Bank of England's monetary policy, the FSA's Adair Turner, the Financial Times economic policy commentators from Martin Wolf all the way down... So the UK is doing much better than its government's stated policy allowed. Because it lacks the Eurozone's lemming-like unity of political purpose. I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
But it's "common sense conservative economics" that's the bugbear.
Let me express a different view. I think that the central government of any sovereign state ought to be striving all the time to determine the optimum overall level of public provision, the correct overall burden of taxation, the correct allocation of total expenditures between competing requirements and the just distribution of the tax burden. It must also determine the extent to which any gap between expenditure and taxation is financed by making a draft on the central bank and how much it is financed by borrowing and on what terms. The way in which governments decide all these (and some other) issues, and the quality of leadership which they can deploy, will, in interaction with the decisions of individuals, corporations and foreigners, determine such things as interest rates, the exchange rate, the inflation rate, the growth rate and the unemployment rate. It will also profoundly influence the distribution of income and wealth not only between individuals but between whole regions, assisting, one hopes, those adversely affected by structural change. ... I recite all this to suggest, not that sovereignty should not be given up in the noble cause of European integration, but that if all these functions are renounced by individual governments they simply have to be taken on by some other authority. The incredible lacuna in the Maastricht programme is that, while it contains a blueprint for the establishment and modus operandi of an independent central bank, there is no blueprint whatever of the analogue, in Community terms, of a central government. Yet there would simply have to be a system of institutions which fulfils all those functions at a Community level which are at present exercised by the central governments of individual member countries. ... What happens if a whole country - a potential `region' in a fully integrated community - suffers a structural setback? So long as it is a sovereign state, it can devalue its currency. It can then trade successfully at full employment provided its people accept the necessary cut in their real incomes. With an economic and monetary union, this recourse is obviously barred, and its prospect is grave indeed unless federal budgeting arrangements are made which fulfil a redistributive role. As was clearly recognised in the MacDougall Report which was published in 1977, there has to be a quid pro quo for giving up the devaluation option in the form of fiscal redistribution. Some writers (such as Samuel Brittan and Sir Douglas Hague) have seriously suggested that EMU, by abolishing the balance of payments problem in its present form, would indeed abolish the problem, where it exists, of persistent failure to compete successfully in world markets. But as Professor Martin Feldstein pointed out in a major article in the Economist (13 June), this argument is very dangerously mistaken. If a country or region has no power to devalue, and if it is not the beneficiary of a system of fiscal equalisation, then there is nothing to stop it suffering a process of cumulative and terminal decline leading, in the end, to emigration as the only alternative to poverty or starvation. I sympathise with the position of those (like Margaret Thatcher) who, faced with the loss of sovereignty, wish to get off the EMU train altogether. I also sympathise with those who seek integration under the jurisdiction of some kind of federal constitution with a federal budget very much larger than that of the Community budget. What I find totally baffling is the position of those who are aiming for economic and monetary union without the creation of new political institutions (apart from a new central bank), and who raise their hands in horror at the words `federal' or `federalism'. This is the position currently adopted by the Government and by most of those who take part in the public discussion.
...
I recite all this to suggest, not that sovereignty should not be given up in the noble cause of European integration, but that if all these functions are renounced by individual governments they simply have to be taken on by some other authority. The incredible lacuna in the Maastricht programme is that, while it contains a blueprint for the establishment and modus operandi of an independent central bank, there is no blueprint whatever of the analogue, in Community terms, of a central government. Yet there would simply have to be a system of institutions which fulfils all those functions at a Community level which are at present exercised by the central governments of individual member countries.
What happens if a whole country - a potential `region' in a fully integrated community - suffers a structural setback? So long as it is a sovereign state, it can devalue its currency. It can then trade successfully at full employment provided its people accept the necessary cut in their real incomes. With an economic and monetary union, this recourse is obviously barred, and its prospect is grave indeed unless federal budgeting arrangements are made which fulfil a redistributive role. As was clearly recognised in the MacDougall Report which was published in 1977, there has to be a quid pro quo for giving up the devaluation option in the form of fiscal redistribution. Some writers (such as Samuel Brittan and Sir Douglas Hague) have seriously suggested that EMU, by abolishing the balance of payments problem in its present form, would indeed abolish the problem, where it exists, of persistent failure to compete successfully in world markets. But as Professor Martin Feldstein pointed out in a major article in the Economist (13 June), this argument is very dangerously mistaken. If a country or region has no power to devalue, and if it is not the beneficiary of a system of fiscal equalisation, then there is nothing to stop it suffering a process of cumulative and terminal decline leading, in the end, to emigration as the only alternative to poverty or starvation. I sympathise with the position of those (like Margaret Thatcher) who, faced with the loss of sovereignty, wish to get off the EMU train altogether. I also sympathise with those who seek integration under the jurisdiction of some kind of federal constitution with a federal budget very much larger than that of the Community budget. What I find totally baffling is the position of those who are aiming for economic and monetary union without the creation of new political institutions (apart from a new central bank), and who raise their hands in horror at the words `federal' or `federalism'. This is the position currently adopted by the Government and by most of those who take part in the public discussion.
Didn't Krugman say basically that "if you have a national currency you should also have a nation"?
It is entirely possible that if, say, you and I had a discussion in French about the world situation, we would come up to different conclusions than if we had it in English. But of course the effect is markedly greater for the mother tongue. If a language makes a concept impossible to express, native speakers may believe that it is the concept that is impossible, not the expression of it. Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
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