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Precipitating the end of Bretton Woods by being gold bugs (repatriating gold at gunpoint - sounds like Germany in 2012!) and being worried about the US national debt seems to me to be entirely consistent with the European Position at the G20 meetings in 2009.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 09:51:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You are willingly exaggerating again. There was no gunpoint (!). A minor naval vessel (not a warship) was sent to sit in a New Jersey harbour to make a symbolic point.

So De Gaulle held to gold convertibility. The Bretton Woods system was, after all, gold-based.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 10:43:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
to rhetorical excess. I am a repeat offender.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:04:40 AM EST
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:-)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:07:02 AM EST
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Or rather, I should say that De Gaulle wanted to sharply remind the US that, in a system where everyone's currencies were rough-pegged to the dollar, the dollar was supposed to be convertible.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
De Gaulle's rationale was essentially that "zOMG!!11 US national debt! Twin Deficits! Gold!!!!!!1111^H^H^H^H"

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:09:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, it was Pompidou not de Gaulle.

I listed de Gaulle because of the Empty-Chair crisis (as evidence that France does call the shots - our own Jerome never tires to remind us that the day France threatens to pull out of the EU, Germany will fold again)

I listed Pompidou because of the end of Bretton Woods (with the gold repatriation)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:13:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
I listed de Gaulle because of the Empty-Chair crisis (as evidence that France does call the shots - our own Jerome never tires to remind us that the day France threatens to pull out of the EU, Germany will fold again)

That's my original point; if Hollande has the cajones to do so.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:21:52 PM EST
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It's not only a matter of cojones but of economic understanding, which is not in evidence in his cabinet.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gah, that story seems to lend itself to confusion, partly because it doesn't seem to be well-documented anywhere. But Pompidou was following in De Gaulle's footsteps, and the gesture was just gesticulation. Bretton Woods was already dislocated.

As for France having been, especially in the years of the Six and then Ten, an obvious major power if not the major power in the "European project", I'm not attempting to deny it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the dollar was supposed to be convertible.

Or at least to have a stable purchasing power, which is what the Gold Standard was presumed to insure. But we know, at least those who understand anything about Keynesian macro, that what is needed is a money supply that increases as total economic activity increases. That makes economic growth possible. Additionally, it should be possible to deliberately increase the money supply to counter private sector pull backs during times of uncertainty when all others are fearful and won't invest. Dollar inflation at least met the first requirement under the Breton Woods agreement.  

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 11:57:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was literally to be convertible to a given weight of gold.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:17:13 PM EST
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And that was threatened, in the mind of the sound money crowd, by the ballooning US government debt due to the Vietnam War buildup among other things, as well as by the US' trade balance reversing from net exporter to net importer (due in part to Germany and Japan taking over as exporters of last resort as a result of the success of post-war US global macro policy).

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also by the increasing importance of dollars as a parallel currency in European banking (Eurodollars), called the "dollar glut". Raising fears of well-known monsters and unsound money. Who wasn't "sound money" back then?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:56:13 PM EST
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Who wasn't "sound money" back then?

Well, if you have a Gold Standard, sound money is the lay of the land... as in the Eurozone today.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 12:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was also the case that the prices were rising while the price of gold was being held down by central banks. So it was in part the purchasing power of gold that they saw as being threatened, as well as the gold standard.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 03:10:26 PM EST
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The reason people thought the gold standard was a good thing is that it was thought to maintain stable purchasing power. This obviously failed during those financial crises when gold was hoarded and its purchasing power increased, but that was somehow OK. None-the-less that was how Morgan and other bankers obtained lots of southern real estate on the cheap after the Civil War - once they had successfully lobbied to get the country back on a gold standard. They had enough of the gold that, by withdrawing it from circulation, they could create a depression. Prices fell and they bought property on the cheap.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Feb 17th, 2013 at 03:05:53 PM EST
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Krugman has listed a few:
under the gold standard America had no major financial panics other than in 1873, 1884, 1890, 1893, 1907, 1930, 1931, 1932, and 1933
by Number 6 on Mon Feb 18th, 2013 at 07:18:31 AM EST
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