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That doesn't matter. Fascist has a meaning, at least a rough meaning too. Was in your opinion FDR a fascist? Some of his measures in 1933 were legally dubious and violated property rights.

In one of my old school books there was map showing democratic and non-democratic states in europe in 1929 and 1933. You imagine what happened: everything east of the Rhine and south of them mountains switched to dictatorship. And all right-wing dictatorship. But that doesn't means fascist. There were only two fascist states: Germany and Italy.

Now Hungary was traveling down the road to fascism in the mid-thirties and you can quibble about other countries.

But a definition that would have subsumed Germany and Latvia or Estonia as both fascist in the thirties is obviously meaningless.

So yes, fascism is an italian invention and doesn't needs to have all the defining traits of nazism.
But still the term has a meaning and shouldn't be used as term for anything someone doesn't likes.

by IM on Mon Mar 18th, 2013 at 01:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Property rights are not the issue.

In practical terms, fascism is simply the political wing of social darwinism - hence contempt for the weak and marginalised, and the overt glorification of expansionist narcissism on various spurious racial, financial, or religious grounds.

(There's also a rather obvious urge to self-destruction, but that's something I'll leave to the psychologists.)

So... stealing money is not fascism.

Stealing money from poor people while justifying it on the grounds of one's own specialness and ability to hover disdainfully over normal civilised norms certainly is - with extra points for blaming the weak while abusing them.

Interestingly, it seems that Schäuble's account of himself as a bulwark of reasonableness against the perfidy of the Cypriot establishment may be less than totally candid.

Is this true? Who knows.

Is it plausible? Unfortunately so.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 18th, 2013 at 02:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No one is talking anymore how much fascism was a reaction to communism. And perhaps a very deliberate, synthetic reaction: national-socialism as a substitute for Marxist socialism, funding of fascist parties... Of course, the same package will be convenient in modern circumstances as well.
by das monde on Mon Mar 18th, 2013 at 02:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<Stealing money from poor people while justifying it on the grounds of one's own specialness and ability to hover disdainfully over normal civilised norms certainly is - with extra points for blaming the weak while abusing them.<<p> Looks like a goods working definition of most organized religion.
by IM on Mon Mar 18th, 2013 at 03:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Was in your opinion FDR a fascist? Some of his measures in 1933 were legally dubious and violated property rights.

No, FDR was an opponent of the excessive power of Wall Street over government policy. And he was never overtly anti-democratic in the USA. He signed the Wagoner's National Labor Relations act, which was the foundation for the flourishing of the labor movement in the USA. His opponents, such as the leaders of The Businessman's Plot in 1933 were also supporters of Hitler who they admired because of the effective way in which he dealt with labor. The plot came to light because they attempted to recruit Gen. Smedley Butler, who, instead, went to Congress and denounced the plot and attempted coup.

FDR did tolerate vicious dictatorships in client states and noted of Somoza that 'he might be an SOB, but he was our SOB', and he was tolerant of white racism in the South as he wanted to retain 'The Solid South'. But, had he wished, he could have broken some of the leaders of  major corporations over the Businessman's Plot, but didn't. And DuPont, IBM, Ford, etc. continued to do business with Hitler even after Pearl Harbor, though they at least had the grace to disguise their participation. Prescott Bush, father of GHW Bush, through Brown Harriman Bank, and the Dulles brothers Allen and John Foster, who went on to be CIA Director and Secretary of State, through Sullivan and Cromwell were both heavily involved in legal aspects of US corporations trading with Germany. Many of these relationships helped Germany and harmed the USA during WW II. Much of the leadership and sponsorship of the Republican Party from the 20s through the 50s were, during Hitler's time, tacitly pro-Nazi. They were FDR's political opponents.


"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Mar 18th, 2013 at 04:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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