Roads to war in Europe | 272 comments (272 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Hang on (4.00 / 2)

My own opinion based on both the Yugoslav and the Libyan experiences is that either you intervene in full force to stop the conflict, or you don't intervene at all. Either way a lot of people are going to get killed. But coming in and slowing down the killing without resolving it just condemns people to a war of attrition (and the same number of deaths).

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 05:04:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My opinion at the time (none / 0)

was that France and Germany should have sent in a joint force of a few armoured divisions, to separate the belligerents along the Serb-Croat front line, and start a process of forcibly annexing the Yugoslav republics to the EU.

Not politically realistic at the time, of course. But fewer deaths, and an obligation to find a political solution.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 05:16:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (4.00 / 2)

It's not the post-Yugo republics who have been dragging their feet on Yugo EU accession...

Not that it was really feasible to just put down a couple of armored divisions between the belligerents, unless you wanted to wait until after they were done with the first round of ethnic cleansing.

The American and Israeli experience in Lebanon is that if you intervene in that sort of messy civil war, you end up with no perceptible strategic gain, no perceptible humanitarian improvement, and all the locals hating your guts.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 05:21:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 1)

But neither Israel nor the USA were disinterested parties with respect to the conflicts in Lebanon. They were more interested in strategic gains than saving lives.

The point of a joint French-German intervention, to spell it out, would have been that jointly they would neutralise any accusation of bias in favour of one side or the other, insofar as they were seen, in the fevered imaginations of the belligerents, as natural allies of one or the other.

No guarantee of success, obviously. But a moral obligation to try.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 05:28:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (4.00 / 6)

Oh, yeah, and France and Germany would be disinterested parties with respect to a conflict in Spain. They would have no strategic interests other than saving lives.

I submit Germany and France give a flying fuck about saving lives in the "problem countries".

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 05:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (4.00 / 6)

No conceivable European country would be a disinterested party in case of a European civil war. They will have supported the elites that caused the problem. Do you really imagine the EU would send a task force to protect a Sryzia government from a military putsch? An invasion of Greece to stop fascists hunting down immigrants and leftists? Really?

On the other hand an escalating intervention in support of an unpopular right wing government doesn't look unlikely.

by generic on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 06:09:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 0)

How long before the Troika starts sending police cooperation missions to Greece?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 06:36:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (4.00 / 3)

We could also just lend them money so they can hire Blackwater. Wait

by generic on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 06:46:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 0)

And Blackwater had the PR sense to 'discover' a right wing plot as their first move. How can lefties criticize them now?

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 12:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 0)

So you think there was no right-wing plot to discover? That would be actually quite surprising.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 12:22:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 0)

Oh no. But at least they had the sense to go after it first, rather than concentrating on the feared leftist plotters. That will allow them to claim even handed behavior when they do go after leftist, which I am sure are the main concern of their employers.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 02:37:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 0)

My suspicions will be dis-confirmed were they to do a thorough job or rooting out right wing violent fascists.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 02:38:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My opinion at the time (none / 0)

Instead what they did was send blue helmets with a mandate to not fire a shot, resulting in Srebrenica and so on.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 5th, 2013 at 05:50:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Roads to war in Europe | 272 comments (272 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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