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That shows it pretty well, of course the Black community isn't creating the dominant culture where they are the majority.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Aug 23rd, 2013 at 06:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is this "American" ancestry that is not "American Indian"?

If it's self-description, that map really does show an image of a cultural divide.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 02:00:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I believe it is a shorthand for 'whites who were present before the creation of the USA' which has been conflated with the English speaking lower class immigrants and those from other groups who have been assimilated by marriage, linguistic replacement and cultural identification into that group. The geographical distribution of this 'demographic' is very much what I have seen elsewhere identified as Scots-Irish, redneck, etc. The definitions for the graph are that the color represents the group with the largest number of members per county or parish.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 10:10:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My point was mainly that it's self-identification. In most of those majority "American" counties, there were no whites to speak of present at the time of Independence (unless French or Spanish). So this means these people claim descent from pre-revolutionary stock present in the coastal colonies, having since moved into and over the Southern Appalachians.

There may be some historical backing for it, and it certainly looks like it fits to some extent with the "Scots-Irish" legend. But the self-identification seems to me more a tribal choice than one rooted in genealogy. It so happens, of course, that it fits with the Confederate South.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 10:58:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree that it involves self identification and that there are mythic elements. But there are large numbers of this demographic in southern Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. The thing that struck me most about the map is the number of light blue (German) counties. But I had a significant number of German surnamed classmates in school, so that is consistent. Perhaps I have been thrown off by confusing ancestry with surviving heratige of which there are much fewer isolated pockets.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 11:42:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ARGeezer:

there are large numbers of this demographic in southern Ohio, Indiana and Illinois

Well, that isn't exactly a surprise.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 05:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The point was that the demographic is more than just the states of the Confederacy.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 07:37:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class War - the trigger (4.00 / 3)

I've always been aware of German demographics in the US, although I grew up in Minneapolis, so I'm familiar with the northern tier of states. And they're obviously not all progressive by a long shot - there are plenty of old angry white people voting republican in Nebraska, Kansas, and the states bordering the south. I think the German influence is in large part responsible for why I feel at home in the Bay Area after growing up in Minneapolis. Boston I could not handle - it's a blue state in the sense that in believes in funding a public sector, but socially it's (to me shockingly) conservative and steeped in social class as a prime form of identity.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 09:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's a blue state in the sense that in believes in funding a public sector, but socially it's (to me shockingly) conservative and steeped in social class as a prime form of identity.

And heavily Catholic - some correlation there.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 11:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Another interesting feature of the map is that the 'Mexican' demographic only appears in the USA, while the country of Mexico is shown in a different color identified as 'Hispanic/Spanish'. Most curious, but US Census categories have always been politically influenced.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 11:52:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd never seen it as a demographic label until this chart. It reminds me of the childish "real Americans" chant that was commonly spoken during Bush's term in office.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 01:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Perhaps Drew can enlighten us as he has actually worked at the Census Bureau, but I can just hear lots of my brethren complaining to their congressmen: "Ethnicity? I don't wan'a list any foreign country. I'm American. We've been here since colonial times. We're the ones who founded this country. The ones who came later are the 'ethnics'. Why can't we just have the category 'American'?"

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 04:33:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

These are not the ethnic categories of the US Census itself. So I take it they are on a list offered to poll respondents, ie people check the box they consider corresponds to them.

Drew may know otherwise, or we could take a look at the census site. I'll do that tomorrow, if no one does between time.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 05:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is a US census data representation. I tried to find one for the 2010 census without success. I did see one statement to the effect that they were not updating that format.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 07:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bear in mind that this map was generated during the Bush 43 administration. Who knows what lame political appointee might have influenced its content.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 07:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Seems like pre-1776 immigration from the UK ~ most of Appalachia has been a net source of internal immigration for over 150 years, so the waves of immigration over the past 150 years has mostly passed them by.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 06:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The traditional view is that this demographic settled in the highlands and families or most of the offspring of families moved further west as they came of age. As a youth in the mid-18th century Daniel Boone was an early explorer and, literally, trailblazer into Kentucky and then settled in and helped settle what became Kentucky. He moved on into Missouri where he spent the last 20 years of his life.

During the 19th century the movement of the demographic continued into Missouri, northern Arkansas, Texas and, starting in 1889, Indian Territory, which became Oklahoma. My paternal grandfather considered himself to be of Scots-Irish descent, was a redhead - and, presumably, literally a redneck, and my paternal grandmother settled in Indian Territory in the early 1890s on Cherokee land. My maternal grandparents were also in Indian Territory in the 1890s and settled in the same county, Dewey County, sandwiched between Osage county on the west Nowata and Rogers county on the east and Tulsa county on the south. Kansas was the northern border.

Almost all of my mothers siblings settled elsewhere - several in Texas, one in California, one in Florida. Most of my father's siblings stayed closer to home, though my cousins on that side have mostly left Oklahoma. Both my mother and father were born at the tail end of large families. My mother's family was more prosperous than was my father's.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 08:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Washington County, not Dewey. Dewey is a small city in Washington County now virtually swallowed by Bartlesville.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:42:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class War - the trigger (4.00 / 3)

A quarter of the trees in much of Appalachia were chestnut, and you could grow about as much pork on an acre of chestnut as you could on an acre of corn ... and the acre of chestnut did not need to be level.

But then the chestnut blight hit.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:32:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I knew about the chestnut blight and have heard an old saying: "Ever so often even the blind old boar will stumble onto a chestnut" but I never realized the importance of chestnuts to Appalachian homesteaders. The blight must have accelerated out migration. It made those who remained even more dependent on coal mining or moonshine.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 26th, 2013 at 12:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, though running hogs on mountainside chestnut is not an activity that encourages investment in agricultural improvement, which is a substantial difference between the chestnut belt of Central Appalachia and the corn belt to its immediate north and northwest.

Still, the chestnut blight put Appalachia into an agricultural depression starting around the turn of the last century that combined with the negative impacts of extraction of mineral wealth.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Aug 26th, 2013 at 05:54:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class War - the trigger (4.00 / 4)

Back to my original point - there is no intrinsic draw for Appalachian folk to vote for people oppressing them. The republicans managed to capture them with their racism, and I think the overall appeal is very shakey when you start thinking in decades. The white people from the deep south are the people who will continue to believe that social castes are natural and handed down by god himself. Their timeline for change is measured in centuries, I think, beyond being dragged into the present by the more progressive areas of the US.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 09:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All that is needed is for a substantial portion of that demographic to wake up and act accordingly. Perhaps primarily women and the college 'educated', given the seemingly almost hereditary antipathy to unions. (Note: my father was a registered Republican who helped organize and was the founding president of a local of the Operating Engineers in the Oklahoma oilfield in 1955.)

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Aug 24th, 2013 at 11:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class War - the trigger (4.00 / 4)

Its not just the Republicans, though ~ the type of progressive populism that was the Democrats strongest drawcard in Appalachia was strategically abandoned in the 1980's with the move to recruit the Hedge Fund wing of the party.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Aug 26th, 2013 at 05:57:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Their abandoning of left-wing politics didn't help in general either.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 26th, 2013 at 03:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But among various left wing positions, it was the economic populism that was a net positive in Appalachian politics ... and there it was a big net positive.

Being socially liberal corporate toadies just isn't a big drawcard in that area.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:17:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]